WikiLeaks cable: Dobriansky's January 15 meeting with PM Clark
February 7, 2008 New Zealand: Under Secretary Dobriansky's January 15 meeting with Prime Minister Clark
date:2008-02-07T03:53:00 source:Embassy Wellington origin:08WELLINGTON35 destination:VZCZCXYZ0000 PP RUEHWEB DE RUEHWL
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classification:CONFIDENTIAL reference: ?C O N F I D E N T I A L WELLINGTON 000035
SIPDIS
SIPDIS
DOE FOR A/S KARSNER NSC FOR K. FRASER BRUSSELS FOR USEU E.O. 12958: DECL... ?C O N F I D E N T I A L WELLINGTON 000035
SIPDIS
SIPDIS
DOE FOR A/S KARSNER NSC FOR K. FRASER BRUSSELS FOR USEU E.O. 12958: DECL: 01/17/2028 TAGS: OVIP, PREL, PGOV, SENV, NZ,
AY, AF, BM, FJ, UK, IN, MY SUBJECT: NEW ZEALAND: UNDER SECRETARY DOBRIANSKY'S JANUARY 15 MEETING WITH PRIME MINISTER
CLARK
Classified By: Consul General John Desrocher for reasons 1.5 (b) and (d).
This message was drafted by ConGen Auckland and approved by Embassy Wellington.
1. (C) Summary. New Zealand PM Clark believes the indifference of most Japanese to whaling leaves the most extreme
whaling advocates free to drive GOJ policy. Clark opposes Antarctic tourism and she is pleased with her government's
efforts to get developing economies to accept some responsibility for reducing greenhouse gases. Clark also told Under
Secretary Dobriansky she is disturbed by Burma's neighbors' attitudes towards that government's repression, as well as
by European unwillingness to put strong conditions on its aid to Fiji. Clark reported that the U.K. believes a
dual-track approach is necessary to succeed in Afghanistan. Clark and Dobriansky discussed their efforts to promote
interfaith dialogue as well as the Secretary's possible visit to New Zealand. End summary.
SIPDIS
----------------- Antarctic Tourism -----------------
2. (C) Prime Minister Clark opened her meeting with Under Secretary Dobriansky by describing her concern about tourism
SIPDIS at the bottom of the world. Clark said that she "had always been down on tourism" in the Antarctic and adjacent
waters, citing its harm to the area's fragile environment and the danger to tourists from the challenging climate and
sea conditions. Clark noted that tourism numbers were up, particularly in the areas claimed by Chile and Argentina.
Dobriansky emphasized the U.S. desire to work with New Zealand on the problem, and suggested the appropriate commission
should consider the imposition of binding rules governing tourism.
------- Whaling -------
3. (C) Clark called attention to the controversy over Japanese whaling and expressed appreciation for the "staunch"
attitude of the U.S. Clark noted that, this season, Japanese whalers were far from New Zealand in Australia's Antarctic
waters, a vast area very difficult to patrol. Clark argued that Japan will relent on whaling only when the attitude of
the Japanese public changes. Most Japanese are indifferent to whaling, she said, leaving the most adamant proponents
free to drive GOJ policy.
4. (C) Dobriansky replied that she has met with New Zealand's International Whaling Commission representative Sir
Geoffrey Palmer to consider next steps. The big challenge, Dobriansky explained, was "salvaging the Commission" and
dealing more effectively with Japan. With regards to the latter, Dobriansky noted she would sit down with USG's Japan
experts to plot out a strategy to be shared with partners like NZ, Australia and the U.K. Regarding the IWC, Clark noted
that she has found Malaysia traditionally difficult but, in recent conversations, Malaysian Prime Minister Badawi has
sounded more cooperative.
-------------- Climate Change --------------
5. (C) Dobriansky expressed satisfaction with the outcome of the Bali Climate Change Conference, particularly the
commitment of developing countries to contribute to efforts to reduce greenhouse gases (GHG). She promised that the U.S.
would remain active in climate change negotiations as well as in its own major emerging economies program. Clark
highlighted her own efforts to "get good statements" on climate change from major international meetings in the run up
to Bali, such as Asian regional meetings (APEC, ASEAN) and Commonwealth meetings, in order to draw developing countries
like India towards GHG commitments. Clark and Dobriansky agreed that a key argument to make to developing countries like
India is that efforts to reduce GHG offer poor countries an opportunity to make technological leaps over the dirty
technology that fueled much of the developed world's economic growth.
6. (C) Energy A/S Karsner described U.S. efforts to tackle climate change, citing a USD one billion investment this year
to produce cellulose ethanol and reduce tailpipe emissions from cars by up to 87%. The U.S. was working with smaller
developed countries like Sweden and Iceland on GHG reduction programs that, if successful, could be scaled up and
implemented in large economies like the U.S. Karsner shared his desire to "green" our stations in Antarctica, both to
protect the environment and to reduce costs. He noted that it costs more to deliver fossil fuels to the
Antarcticstations than to anywhere else on earth and that the U.S. wants to work with NZ and others to meet the
stations' energy needs more efficiently. Similarly, the U.S. was interested in working with NZ in the Pacific on
community-scale integrated reduction programs that would help reduce emissions in very small economies, like the Pacific
islands.
-------------------------------- Emissions Efforts in New Zealand --------------------------------
7. (C) Dobriansky praised Clark's initiative to ensure that 90% of New Zealand's energy needs are met by renewable
sources. Clark noted that New Zealand already gets two-thirds of its energy from such sources and can make up the rest
with more wind, geothermal and hydro power. Banning new fossil fuel-powered energy generation projects will force the
country to find alternatives, Clark explained.
8. (C) New Zealand faced particular pressure to be green, Clark continued. "We must put substance into the green
slogan," Clark said, if NZ is to push back successfully against misguided popular concerns about food miles and
tourists' carbon footprints. Clark added that agriculture and tourism form the basis of NZ's economy and must be, and
must be perceived to be, environmentally-friendly.
9. (C) On the Secretary's behalf, Dobriansky invited Clark to the Washington International Renewable Energy Conference
(WIREC) in March. Dobriansky and Karsner pointed out the strong interest in the conference from German Chancellor Merkel
and the Swedish premier.
----------------- Secretary's Visit SIPDIS -----------------
10. (C) Clark expressed appreciation for Dobriansky's visit, noting that she was the most senior administration official
to visit New Zealand in quite some time. Clark said that she was looking forward to a possible visit from the Secretary,
but understood the need to avoid discussing the SIPDIS visit publicly until it was officially agreed and the details
were settled. Dobriansky promised to pass in Clark's interest to the Secretary and the Charge noted that the Embassy and
Department were working with MFAT on a possible program.
----- Burma -----
11. (C) Dobriansky thanked Clark for her personal involvement on Burma, prompting Clark to recall her role as the "bad
fairy" at a recent ASEAN lunch at which she, to the consternation of Burma's neighbors and while seated directly across
from her Burmese counterpart, condemned the junta's human rights violations. China, India and ASEAN "need to stand up,"
Clark continued, explaining that she had recently told the Chinese premier that it was time for the PRC to take a strong
stand on Burma just as it had done on North Korea. Clark added that she also raised the issue with her Indian
counterpart and described the Indian attitude as "reprehensible."
---- Fiji ----
12. (C) Clark complained that, while the U.S. has been very supportive of NZ's position on Fiji, the Europeans are "not
helpful." She cited European attitudes at the time of the Pacific Islands Forum (PIF). PIF members were ready to
recommend that a non-military interim leader be appointed, but the EU declined to condition its aid on that step and the
idea faded. Now, Clark added, New Zealand is "brainstorming to find a path around Bainimarama," who can be rigid. "There
are others in Fiji to engage," Clark said.
----------- Afghanistan -----------
13. (C) Clark reported that, during her just-completed visit to London, PM Brown pushed for a dual-track approach to
Afghanistan and expressed regret over the Afghan Government's recent expulsion of two European diplomats accused of
having talks with Taleban leaders. Her U.K. interlocutors, she said, "were surprised by how many Taleban leaders want to
talk."
------------------- Interfaith Dialogue -------------------
14. (C) After Dobriansky reiterated the President's commitment to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian dispute by the end of
his administration, Clark recalled her own efforts to promote interfaith dialogue. Dean Pittman referenced the State
Department's initiative in that regard, cautioning that such efforts by governments "need to be subtle." It is a
particular challenge for the U.S., Pittman added, because any such initiative from Washington tend to be viewed with
suspicion by the intended audience. Dobriansky explained that reaching out to Muslim youth was particularly important.
Clark agreed, noting with regret the success that extremists have had using the Internet to recruit young people.
------------ Participants ------------
15. (SBU) New Zealand: Prime Minister Helen Clark Deputy Secretary Carolyn Forsyth, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and
Trade (MFAT) Andrea Smith, Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet Justin Fepulea'i, MFAT U.S.: U/S Paula
Dobriansky A/S Andrew Karsner, DOE David Keegan, Charge d'Affaires Dean Pittman, Policy Planning John Desrocher, Consul
General (notetaker)
MCCORMICK
ENDS