WikiLeaks cable: US Ambassador raises possibility of bilateral discussions
This is one of the diplomatic cables about New Zealand held by Wikileaks.
10 June, 2005 SUBJECT: WITH NEW ZEALAND PM, AMBASSADOR RAISES POSSIBILITY OF BILATERAL DISCUSSIONS
This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.
Classified by: Ambassador Charles J. Swindells. Reasons: 1.4 (b) and (d).
1. (C) Begin summary: In a meeting that included discussion of China's growing power and the need for a U.S. presence in
the Pacific, the Ambassador told New Zealand Prime Minister Clark that the time was ripe for a frank and comprehensive
dialogue between our governments on issues that hinder our bilateral relationship, including New Zealand's anti-nuclear
policy. The Prime Minister expressed frustration over the perception of difficulties in the relationship despite having
so much in common, but did not immediately take up the offer of dialogue. Nonetheless, while noting that she is focused
on coming national elections, she left the door open to bilateral discussions, saying there may be an area of
flexibility that would allow the relationship to move forward. End summary.
PM's visits to China and Japan ------------------------------ 2. (U) At the Ambassador's request, he and Prime Minister
Clark met June 8. The Ambassador told the Prime Minister that it was an opportune time to touch base, in view of recent
trips by Clark to China and Japan, by Foreign Minister Goff to the United States and Canada, and by the Ambassador to
Washington.
3. (C) Recounting her May 30 to June 4 trip to China and Japan, PM Clark expressed deep interest in ensuring that
China's emergence as a great power is peaceful. She said New Zealand would use whatever ability it has to influence
China's direction positively, which was part of the message that FM Goff took to Washington in late May.
4. (C) Clark reported that the Chinese, who have been negotiating a free-trade agreement with the New Zealanders since
December 2004, stated their keen interest in achieving an agreement. When Clark told them that the deal had to be both
ambitious and "high quality," the Chinese agreed. "We're presented as more cautious than they have been," Clark
commented. China is New Zealand's fourth-largest trade partner.
5. (C) The Prime Minister said she delivered a strong message on North Korea to the Chinese, saying she believed that
their role was critical in curbing North Korea's nuclear program -- that they had more influence than anyone else over
the North Korean government. She also noted that while the Chinese have told the United States to be more subtle in its
approach, subtlety does not work with North Korea.
6. (C) Clark recalled that Chinese President Hu had said at the last APEC summit that it was important for the Japanese
to not inflame their bilateral relations, pointing particularly to Japanese leaders' visits to Yasukuni Shrine. Hu left
the impression that the Chinese believed the ball was in the Japanese court. But that is not the way the Japanese see
it, Clark said. Instead, they believe that by canceling visits to the shrine, it would appear that they were succumbing
to Chinese pressure.
7. (C) Clark -- noting the importance to New Zealand of its relationship to Japan, its third-largest trade partner --
said she detected a "reflective" mood in her meeting with President Koizumi regarding how Japan should deal with its
wartime past. He is mindful of the coming 60th anniversary of VJ Day. Clark said it will be helpful if Koizumi reflects
over the next two months the humility he expressed in attending VE Day ceremonies in Moscow.
8. (C) Clark said that on the day she met with Koizumi, the Australians delivered a demarche on Japan's scientific
whaling activities. She knew that the United States also had delivered a strong message. She told the Japanese that it
would be a tragedy if they left the International Whaling Commission. That would allow the Japanese to operate without
any discipline, and we need to continue the dialogue with them, she said to the Ambassador.
9. (C) Meanwhile, Clark wondered whether resolution of the tensions between China and Japan would affect both the North
Korean problem and UN Security Council reform. She speculated that such tensions may have given the Chinese a reason to
hold back on the Six-Party Talks and caused them to be obstructionist in the United Nations, opposing a permanent seat
on the Security Council for Japan.
U.S.-New Zealand relationship ----------------------------- 10. (C) The Ambassador said that, in his recent meetings
with the President and officials at the White House and State and Defense Departments, it is clear that the U.S.
government considers the relationship with New Zealand to be important. It also is clear, however, that the bilateral
relationship is not what it needs to be. Thus, the U.S. government would like to begin a quiet and frank dialogue with
New Zealand on all issues on which we do not agree. While those issues would include New Zealand's anti-nuclear
legislation, the discussions might not necessarily result in a change in the legislation or in a return by New Zealand
to the ANZUS alliance. But we will not know about the possibilities of moving the bilateral relationship forward unless
we talk about them. However, the Ambassador made it clear that we are looking to New Zealand to express its interest in
such discussions and to indicate its preferences on when and how they might take place.
11. (C) PM Clark responded that she was focused on a certain "date," referring to elections that she has not yet
scheduled but that must be held by September 24. But she added that in the New Zealand-U.S. relationship, "we have
everything in common." It is frustrating that, despite such commonality, "the relationship seems to go grumpy" by being
seen through only one issue -- implying, the anti-nuclear issue. She noted New Zealand's contribution to the war and
reconstruction in Afghanistan and willingness to contribute to efforts in the Pacific. "When I go to APEC, you can't
split a hair between the President and myself," Clark said.
12. (C) The Ambassador stressed that proceeding with dialogue would be up to New Zealand and assured Clark that there
was no pressure on her. "We're ready when you tell us you're ready," the Ambassador said. DCM Burnett said the
discussions could be held privately and could be productive even if they came full circle. They could help us to work
together more efficiently, for instance, on such efforts at the Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI).
13. (C) Both countries must find ways to deal with new realities, Clark responded. The PSI is a classic example: New
Zealand was invited to participate, while some in the Pentagon suggested it should not be allowed to join the military
exercises.
14. (C) While noting that the United States no longer arms its ships with nuclear weapons, Clark said her "gut feeling"
was that her government would not want to change its anti-nuclear legislation, which would continue to ban
nuclear-propelled ships. "I know how your Navy will respond," she said. DCM Burnett said that the ban was not
necessarily a problem bilaterally since we have never had a pressing need to send any vessels to New Zealand, but had
repercussions elsewhere in the region in terms of U.S. fleet mobility. Clark said, "If that's an area of flexibility --
of no need for nuclear ships in our area -- then that's perhaps an area for us to move forward."
15. (C) The Ambassador pointed out the interest of Australia, Singapore and other countries in a strong U.S. presence
for regional stability and economic reasons. The Prime Minister said the emerging strategic architecture in the Pacific
had to include the United States. With the rise of China and India, with Japan once being "abhorrently" powerful but now
in decline, and with ASEAN as a counterweight, a U.S. presence is necessary. "China has to be balanced," she said.
16. (C) The Ambassador suggested that opening a dialogue could highlight areas in which New Zealand and the United
States might increase their cooperation. His successor has been identified but not yet confirmed, and even though the
Ambassador will be leaving Wellington within the year, he would ensure continuity in any discussions once they had
started. He noted his deep respect for the Prime Minister and the belief that she could find a way forward in the
bilateral relationship. He asked that the Prime Minister let him know if and when she was comfortable with proceeding
with discussions. She responded, half jokingly, "We're here to help."
17. (U) PM Clark was accompanied by Brook Barrington, her foreign policy adviser, and Roy Ferguson, director of the
Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade's Americas Division. The Ambassador was accompanied by the DCM and acting
political-economic counselor (notetaker).
18. (C) Comment: The message to PM Clark was clear: It is now up to her government as to whether it chooses to seek
better relations with the United States and pursues dialogue with us. But a decision will have to wait, with the Labour
government's lead in public opinion polls declining and with it facing what now appears to be a difficult campaign for
re-election.
Swindells
ENDS