Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner Dr Jackie Blue – the UN is ‘shocked’ at how women are treated in the family
court.
Dr Jackie Blue told TVNZ 1’s Q+A programme, ‘one thing they were particularly shocked about, and that was how women are
treated in the family courts. The CEDAW member in charge of those questions was absolutely shocked at the reports that
she had read through the NGO submissions.’
‘Hundreds of women have contacted the Backbone Collective and they have told their stories of feeling they’re being
revictimised, being punished, of judiciary decisions that have been very inconsistent, and been accused of the
discredited parental alienation syndrome, where mothers maliciously get their children to make false claims against
their fathers.’
Dr Blue has recently returned from Geneva, where she spoke at the UN’s Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination
against Women (CEDAW).
CORIN And what did the UN want us to do?
JACKIE The line of questioning was around calling for the rapporteur on violence to come to New Zealand
When asked about a planned government review of the Family Court, Dr Blue told Corin Dann, ‘the current inquiry that’s
going to occur is too narrow, and the CEDAW member also agreed with that. It doesn’t go far enough, and also you need a
mechanism where you can investigate our judiciary, which is difficult because they are—there’s a separation of powers
with our courts.’
Dr Blue is calling for cross party support to address the issue of domestic violence.
The UN recommendations to the government are expected early this week.
Q + A
Episode 19
DR JACKIE BLUE
Interviewed by Corin Dann
JACKIELook, I can’t comment about the National Party stance on that. I actually am so much of a fan of that bill, it’s not
funny. I have advocated for it so strongly. I just know it’s going to make a difference. And there are so many victims
of family violence in paid work. The workplace is an obvious place to intervene.
CORINWhy do you put it in the terms that domestic violence is a human rights issue?
JACKIEGender equality – when women are valued the same – will never happen while we have violence, where often it is a power
and control issue where women’s role in society and how they are perceived is at the heart of it all.
CORINAnd do you think this cuts across socioeconomic groups? You’ve spoken yourself about a personal experience with domestic
violence.
JACKIEWe don’t know, Corin. Upwards of 120,000 callouts to the police – we don’t know the ethnic breakdown. We think it’s only
about 20% of people who report to the police. It could be as low as 13%. So we don’t know what the other 80% look like.
We don’t know a lot about family violence in New Zealand.
CORINWhat do you think, though, having been in your role for a few years now? What is driving the high levels of violence in
New Zealand? Why is this a problem in New Zealand?
JACKIENo one knows for sure – probably a number of reasons. A number of it could be learned behaviour – children see their
parents being violent. It could be generational – the victims become perpetrators. It could be—There could be a whole
lot of stressors, which we know we can’t—they shouldn’t take the blame, like poverty and unemployment or alcohol. They
certainly can contribute but they cannot be used as an excuse.
CORINSo you’ve talked about a cross-party approach, but if there was an area of government where you had some resources and
you could put in some effort, what would it be? What would be the thing that you think is most critical that needs to be
done?
JACKIEWhen I was in parliament I did a lot of cross-party work, and when politics is left at the door and you have diverse,
smart people around the table trying to solve a problem, there’s a sort of magic that happens. There’s an energy all of
its own and there’s respect, and amazing things can happen. So that’s why I’m so passionate about a cross-party accord.
Let’s not lose any more momentum.
CORINHave you spoken to the political parties about such an idea?
JACKIEI know that Jan Logie was questioned about a cross-party approach and she said that she was looking to strengthen the
initiatives under the National government. I mean, that was a very heartening comment made by an MP who has great
integrity, but unfortunately she is not in Cabinet and she doesn’t have the final say on this.
CORINYou have just been at the United Nations. Coming back to that, how did they view us? Because we have not been making the
progress we should be making on domestic violence. Where do we stack up in terms of the rest of the world? And I’m
interested how they view us and why we’re not making progress.
JACKIEWell, I’ll tell you one thing they were particularly shocked about, and that was how women are treated in the family
courts. The CEDAW member in charge of those questions was absolutely shocked at the reports that she had read through
the NGO submissions. And I had read those too prior to going to New York and I was shocked, and I supported the call for
a special rapporteur on violence against women to come to New Zealand to investigate women’s experience in the Family
Court.
CORINWhat is that experience that you’re hearing about?
JACKIEWell, it’s shocking. Hundreds of women have contacted the Backbone Collective and they have told their stories of
feeling they’re being revictimised, being punished, of judiciary decisions that have been very inconsistent, and been
accused of the discredited parental alienation syndrome, where mothers maliciously get their children to make false
claims against their fathers.
CORINAnd what did the UN want us to do?
JACKIEThe line of questioning was around calling for the rapporteur on violence to come to New Zealand. We’ve yet to wait for
their concluding observations, which will be out in the next couple of weeks.
CORINSo a special rapporteur – they have come to New Zealand in the past on various issues. So they are an envoy,
essentially, from the United Nations. They would come, presumably, at the invitation of the government?
JACKIEThere is an open invitation to all rapporteurs – a standing invitation – so it would be a matter for the rapporteur to
request a visit and the government to agree and organise.
CORINBut it was your sense they wanted to come here to look at this because they were so concerned about the Family Court?
JACKIEOh, the CEDAW member who was questioning is actually the vice-chair of that committee and she was shocked. She’s a
family law professor and she’d never read anything so horrifying.
CORINWe know that Andrew Little wants to review the Family Court. Is he aware of these concerns? Have you expressed them to
him? He must be, surely.
JACKIEI haven’t personally expressed them but he has met with the Backbone Collective. The current inquiry that’s going to
occur is too narrow, and the CEDAW member also agreed with that. It doesn’t go far enough, and also you need a mechanism
where you can investigate our judiciary, which is difficult because they are—there’s a separation of powers with our
courts.
CORINYou’re finishing up soonish, I suppose, in your role. What is your parting message to those in power as you—in terms of
the next time we go to the UN, how do we make sure that we’ve actually made progress?
JACKIECorin, we had a visiting expert in New Zealand a few years ago and she said New Zealand could be world-leading in our
model of combatting domestic violence because we are a small population, small geography, we have a robust democracy,
one government and we have dedicated people on the ground and NGOs. So we can be world-leading and we need the focus and
it definitely needs to be cross-party. We can’t afford to lose any more momentum. And I know it can work. That’s my
message.
Transcript provided by Able. www.able.co.nz
You can watch the interview here.
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