Q+A: Tracey Martin interviewed by Jessica Mutch

The new Minister for Children says she’ll be a "brave minister"

NZ First MP and Minister for Children Tracey Martin told TVNZ 1’s Q+A that she will be “brave” when it comes to protecting children and her responbilities within Oranga Tamariki.
"I think a lot of politicians concern themselves about their politics, and there are times when you have to put politics aside and actually do what is right," says Minister Martin.
When asked about her position regarding the so-called smacking bill the Minister responded by saying “first of all, the argument or the conversation that I had – and I think it was on this program – was around the law, and was it good law or was it confusing? So it wasn't around people being able to smack their children. That’s rhetoric that comes from somewhere else.”
“I would like to move on to conversations about things that are going to happen that will protect children in this country," she says.

END

Q + A
Episode 35
TRACEY MARTIN
Interviewed by Jessica Mutch

JESSICA I'm joined now by Tracey Martin, who is the new Minister for Children. Thank you for being here this morning.

TRACEY Kia ora.

JESSICA I want to start off by clarifying – what are you responsible for as the Minister for Children? Because the Prime Minister has the child poverty reduction side of it. There’s another youth minister. What are you going to look after?

TRACEY So predominantly I am responsible for everything that Oranga Tamariki does. So that is everything from birth to 14 years old, which are called children, and then also for some areas with regard to youth justice. So when young people are remanded, how they are treated by the youth justice system and so on comes under my purview. And also for—just generally for that section of children, I suppose.

JESSICA You've also got a Social Development Minister. You’ve got an education minister as well. Is that going to take some careful managing with all of those portfolios?

TRACEY There certainly are delegations that are going to be coming to me from the Minister for Social Development. There are also delegations going to be coming to me from the Ministry of Education, but that’s predominately in my Associate Minister of Education role. There are a few delegations that I will be making to others under my Minister for Internal Affairs role, so we're still setting up those structures.

JESSICA How do you want to be measured as a minister at the end of the term?

TRACEY Probably in the same way that I want to be measured when I came into Parliament. I want to be a brave minister, which means that if something needs to be done for the benefit, particularly in the Oranga Tamariki space – and while it might gain criticism either from my colleagues or from the general public – but it is for the betterment of children, then I want to be brave enough to actually make that happen.

JESSICA Do you think that’s been done enough in the past before?

TRACEY I think a lot of politicians concern themselves about their politics, and there are times when you have to put politics aside and actually do what is right, and I think particularly in Oranga Tamariki, that’s one of those ministries.

JESSICA One of the political things that you've spoken out on before has been the anti-smacking—the so-called anti-smacking bill. Do you still think that it's okay to smack children?

TRACEY I think this is a really interesting conversation, and it’s come up several times in the, what, seven days that I’ve been the Minister for Children. First of all, the argument or the conversation that I had – and I think it was on this program – was around the law, and was it good law or was it confusing? So it wasn't around people being able to smack their children. That’s rhetoric that comes from somewhere else. Secondly, my understanding is – and people who are proponents of that law tell me now – that there is nothing in that law that criminalises good parenting, so—and it’s a conversation about something that is not going to happen. So I would like to move on to conversations about things that are going to happen that will protect children in this country.

JESSICA But as someone who is speaking for children, isn't that one of the important things that you should be speaking out against – the harm of children? Isn’t that the fundamental role of your job?

TRACEY Most certainly. Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s what you speak out against is the harm that is being done to children. I’m just really interested that everybody’s connecting those two things.

JESSICA You’re also going to be the Associate Minister of Education. National Standards – you’re not a big fan. Why not? Can you outline for me?

TRACEY Certainly, so that is an agreement between the Labour Party and New Zealand First – that National Standards would go in the first hundred days. We both campaigned on it. National Standards have never been national, nor have they been standard. Now, you’ve heard that before, but the other thing about National Standards was it was never about children's education. It was about checking on teachers. We happen to believe – both Chris Hipkins and myself – that if we return to a high-trust educational model where we put the learning and teaching first, rather than the measurement of what a teacher is doing in the classroom, then we get better outcomes for children.

JESSICA Don’t you think some parents will be sitting at home, though, thinking that standards may slip if there’s no measure, there’s no standard to go by?

TRACEY It was very clever language. It was very clever language by the National Party when they put in that, because nobody can argue with a standard. The reality was—the messaging that they put out was that there had been no assessment, and there has been formative assessment all the way through our education system, and particularly improved formative assessment since we had the New Zealand Curriculum. There are assessment levels inside the back of the New Zealand Curriculum that parents will understand. So no, I’m not the slightest bit concerned that parents won't know where their children are at and what are the next steps to take them on their educational journey.

JESSICA What would you like to see National Standards replaced with?

TRACEY We’ve already campaigned on it – with those curriculum levels, the two-year bands at the back of the New Zealand Curriculum, with formative assessment, with conversations between parents and teachers about their child and what their child needs and the supports they need to get them to the next step for their education.

JESSICA I know from our time on the campaign trail you're a straight shooter. Charter schools – what is going to happen to the current charter schools?

TRACEY Both—Again, it's an agreement between the Labour Party and New Zealand First that charter schools are not part of what we see for the future of the New Zealand education system. There are contractual arrangements with the current charter schools. They will have to be worked through with the current government, but at the end of the day, charter schools will not be part of the New Zealand education system under a Labour-led New Zealand First coalition government.

JESSICA So the writing’s on the wall for them?

TRACEY We have never, ever misled. If you go back to the first speech I ever made when the Education Act 1989 was amended to allow charter schools, I said then, ‘Please don't mortgage your homes to open one of the schools, because this will not be a long-term proposition.’

JESSICA But don't you think they work for some children?

TRACEY Unfortunately what we've got is we’ve got a bulk-funded situation that is not producing any better results for some children than the state-funded education system. There were already mechanisms inside the Education Act 1989 by which, say, Vanguard could have operated. They just couldn't make a profit.

JESSICA Youth justice I want to touch on with you. The previous government – they changed the youth justice age from 18 to—from 17 to 18, meaning that 17-year-olds can’t be—won’t be going to jail with those hardened criminals and going into the court system. What do you think about that?

TRACEY Well, New Zealand First actually—Darroch Ball was our spokesperson at that time. If you go back to the Hansard, you’ll see that we voted against that piece of legislation and argued against increasing the age. I’ve read the Cabinet papers. I understand the concept. What we were arguing was that the justice system itself is failing our young people. We’ve got—I think it’s 80-90% recidivism out of our youth courts. So fine, the age has been raised and now that comes under the Ministry for Children. So we need to be better at intervening earlier in the lives of young people that are going off the rails, and we need to provide some other tools for our police around that.

JESSICA Just finally, a lot of people think of New Zealand First and they think it’s Winston Peters’ party. Do you feel like you’ve got a lot to prove as a minister to put your own stamp on things?

TRACEY That would sort of be—That sounds a little egotistical. It sounds like this is about actually Tracey Martin now – creating a profile for Tracey Martin. The job I’ve been given – one of those is the Minister for Seniors, which is iconic with the Right Honourable Winston Peters. The job I've been given is to do the best I can for the people of New Zealand under the portfolios that I live in. I don't spend my time trying to make sure that I get enough profile with regard to my position in New Zealand First.

JESSICA Well, thank you very much for being here this morning. Really appreciate it.

TRACEY Kia ora.

Please find attached the full transcript and the link to the interview

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