The Nation: Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment
On The Nation:
Lisa Owen
interviews Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment Dr
Jan Wright
Jan Wright criticises state-owned Landcorp for converting forestry land to dairy farming, given the effect on the environment
“Personally, I’ve not been able to understand why Crown agency is involved in such activity, because it doesn’t seem the kind of thing a Crown agency should be involved in.”
Environment Commissioner says some parts of NZ can’t accommodate more dairying because of the negative effect on the environment, and conversions should be capped there
Owen: But is it something you would recommend or think
would be a good thing?
Wright: I think that in some
places where catchment is already not coping, I think their
regional councils ought to be doing that.
Says she’s particularly concerned about the Waikato given that dairying in the region has already exceeded the prediction for 2020. “It was already well over that by 2012, and so I would expect to see quite a big impact on water bodies in the Waikato.”
Wright says new research shows there’s been an unexpected and “concerning” decrease in NZ plantation forestry land, while dairy farms have continued to increase.
NZ not doing enough to combat effect of farming on the environment as “the longer we leave this, the more expensive and difficult it's going to be”
Lisa Owen: Fresh water is our greatest
natural asset, but despite our clean green image, we haven't
always been good at managing it. New research just released
by Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment Jan Wright
shows more land is being used for dairy farms than expected.
So is it time to tai ho? Well, Dr Wright is with me in the
studio. Your new report on land use, it doesn't seem good
news for water quality. What concerns you the
most?
Jan Wright: Well, what concerns me; I
expected dairy farming to spread as much as it has, but
perhaps more concerning is the fact that forestry hasn't. I
mean, we made certain predictions about land use change and
expected both dairying and forestry to grow. Forestry, of
course, is good for water quality — holds nutrients on
land, doesn't lose them into water — and this hasn't
happened. So we actually predicted the effect on water of
what we expected to happen, but I think we under predicted
the effect.
Right. So the scenario's worse
than you anticipated. There are these significant new
figures. Can you talk us through this? How much more dairy
conversion is there? And on the other side of the equation,
how much has forestry diminished?
Well, what
we're looking at is a period of actual change over four
years from 2008 to 2012. Dairying has gone up about an
amount equal to the loss of sheep and beef land. The
forestry has gone down a little, but we expected it to
increase. The predictions were made based on official
commodity prices and it hasn't panned out that
way.
So what's driving
it?
Well, commodity prices do drive. New
Zealanders' use of the land does respond very much to
international prices; we always have; you know, wool, meat,
whatever it is. And I think what happens is perhaps
everything you do with the land has an environmental impact,
and when we do a lot of one thing, whatever that
environmental impact is very big. And so when we did a lot
of sheep, there was a lot of erosion; a problem that still
remains with us, a lot of soil being washed into water. And
now, a big problem we've got with dairying is nitrogen from
cow urine.
So given that these figures are
worse than what you've thought, does that mean the
environment is worse than what you thought as
well?
Well, it all depends on where it is.
Some water bodies are relatively resilient to the addition
of these nutrients; others are not and that's a very big
factor. Lakes, wetlands, estuaries; anywhere where the
pollutants are confined, especially vulnerable; fast flowing
rivers tend to be the least vulnerable, so it does vary a
lot across the country. But the upshot of it all is that in
terms of nutrients — nitrogen in particular, phosphorous
to a lesser extent — getting into water across the country
where the dairy conversions have occurred so much will tend
to create more algal blooms, more slime because they're
fertilising plants and water instead of fertilising plants
on land where we want them to.
So to be blunt,
increasing dairy is directly responsible for growing
pollution in the environment.
Not only. The
erosion I referred to earlier or that loss of top soil from
land over many decades in hill country has taken naturally
occurring phosphorous in which is half the problem. If you
like, the cows are adding the nitrogen.
Okay.
So what does this mean for the government's approach which
is to double agricultural production by 2025 in its belief
that it can increase production and still maintain or even
improve environmental conditions? What does this mean for
that?
Well, I think we have to carefully
distinguish between production and profit, and the
government's aim, I think, is to double the value of
exports. So we need to increase the value of our products,
and I would like to see us diversify what those products
are. Because as I said earlier, if we produce a whole lot of
one thing, then whatever that environmental impact is is
going to writ large.
So when you say diversify
our product, would you like us to move away from dairying or
our reliance on dairying?
Yes. I think there
are a lot of reasons for that; economic reasons as well as
environmental reasons. It is a— Diversification generally
means resilience, and we're, of course, seeing economic
problems now with dairying and the milk
price.
So do we need a moratorium or a cap on
dairying?
Well, that's a big thing to do. I
mean, some places in the country can accommodate more
dairying; others cannot. What particularly concerned me
actually was the Waikato. We had made a prediction for 2020
that dairying would expand a certain amount by that time. It
was already well over that by 2012, and so I would expect to
see quite a big impact on water bodies in the
Waikato.
So there are some areas in particular
you say you're worried about. So why not maybe cap dairying
in those areas? Is that an option?
That is
up to regional councils to do, and what is beginning to
happen is putting nitrogen limits to certain
catchments.
But is it something you would
recommend or think would be a good thing?
I
think that in some places where catchment is already not
coping, I think their regional councils ought to be doing
that. In a way, they're doing in indirectly in some places
by putting nitrogen limits on catchments. So you're allowed
to do dairy farming provided that you keep your nitrogen
loss below a certain level. So in effect, that will slow
things down.
So the areas that you're talking
about — you've mentioned Waikato — what are other areas
where you'd like to see councils move towards that kind of
policy?
Canterbury is already doing it to a
certain extent. Southland needs to get going faster; the
Manawatu has been active. But you see, the longer we leave
this, the more expensive and difficult it's going to be in
the long run, and I think if you start to add up all the
money; government money and council money that's being spent
on Lake Taupo, the Rotorua lakes and so on, the Manawatu
river, Ellesmere, Waihora and Canterbury, there's millions
and millions of dollars already earmarked because these
places have already gone too far. So I want to see more
action and that's why I've also done this report on the
government's policy.
Yeah. Well, the farmers
will tell us — and they do tell us — that they are being
responsible. They're fencing waterways; they're dealing with
effluent. Is that not working?
I absolutely
acknowledge the change that's gone on. When the first report
on this came out, there was a reaction — 'Well, it's not
really real and you're exaggerating the problem and it's not
really about the nitrogen.' There is widespread acceptance
of the problem now and there is a lot going on,
but—
But is that enough? The lot that's
going on, is that enough?
It's not enough
with regard to nitrogen, and that's because I call it
elusive. Cow urine, a whole lot in one place, very soluble;
it leeches through into ground water, very very difficult to
stop. So fencing the waterways, planting trees, spraying
your shed effluent on to land — great. Fantastic they're
doing these things; getting a lot better result with
phosphorous. Nitrogen is the problem, but there's a lot of
research going on, so I'm optimistic.
But all
that stuff you listed you’ve said is not
enough.
No.
So do you think
that to turn this around, in some way, farmers are going to
have to take a hit in some capacity?
Well, I
think there’s some interesting things going on now, where
there’s some evidence emerging that maybe farmers aren’t
getting the profit they could have, because they’re so
exposed by bringing in so much imported feed and running the
land so hard to produce more and more production and not
necessarily making more profit. So I think there’s some
economic changes that might come here which will also help
the environment.
We’ve just had a question
from one of our viewers which I would like to point to you
– ‘is it responsible to have the government involved in
so many conversions from forestry to dairy? Is that a
responsible approach?’
This would be
referring to Landcorp in Waikato—
Yes,
yes.
Where the central, or volcanic,
plateau—
Is that a responsible
approach?
Personally, I’ve not been able to
understand why Crown agency is involved in such activity,
because it doesn’t seem the kind of thing a Crown agency
should be involved in. And certainly those conversions,
where you’ve gone from forestry to dairy, is a big
difference in nutrients, even with best practice mitigation
on the dairy farms.
So would you like the
handbrake to go on that?
Well, I think
it’s almost too late in that case. It’s been going on
for some years.
All right. Thank you very much
for joining me this morning, Commissioner Jan
Wright.
Transcript provided by Able. www.able.co.nz