On The Nation:

Lisa Owen interviews incoming Northland MP Winston Peters

Lisa Owen: Good morning, Mr Peters.
Winston Peters: Good morning.

Tell me, is it any different waking up this morning with a new job as an electorate MP?

No, look, I was always going to be an MP here today, regardless of the outcome yesterday. But to be able to speak for the north, you needed a mandate and that’s what I sought, and that’s why we put it all on the line, as we told you back on the 27thFebruary, that we were going to put everything on the line here, take some serious risks, but we needed to do it, because I’m a Northlander, and we have been forgotten here.

And you did put everything on the line, and for the past few weeks, it’s been pretty frenetic. How hard have you pushed yourself during that campaign?

Well, I was lucky. I had a tremendous small team, who knew precisely what they were doing, and if I hadn’t had them, I couldn’t have done it. Everyone here was critical, and then we had a whole lot of people who were National Party farmers and what have you, out there putting up the hoardings for us and keeping them going. It was terribly tremendously encouraging up here. It was a fantastic campaign to be in.
You’re looking pretty fresh this morning, Mr Peters, so would you say that this is the best campaign that you’ve ever run?

Yes, it is. Because we were facing such a huge 17412-vote turnaround, and that would’ve seen to many people- and I suppose I could forgive the media for thinking it was some sort of stunt, but when you face that sort of mountain, you have to be committed and we thoroughly were set for this task, and we believed from the word go that we could win and win well.

So what did win it for you?

Well, I asked people to send them a message they’d had enough. Because up here, if you look at all the indices that are meant to be up, then up north, they’re down; and all the indicators that should be down are up. In fact, things are upside-down here, and we promised to turn them the right way up, and we’re starting tomorrow, when we put away the debris of a campaign to prioritise those things and we’re going to set out to try and prove, in two and a half years, what can be done if you get the government’s attention.

So that’s Northland’s message, but do you think there’s a broader message there for the government about the regions?

Yeah, last night I said, ‘Look, we’re not alone up here. There are hundreds of thousands of forgotten New Zealanders.’ There are people, for example, in the Hawke’s Bay and in Gisborne, their railway line has been shut down. But it costs six million to fix it up. But KiwiRail was so lax and negligent in their responsibilities, they didn’t bother. And up here they’re winding down the railways as well. They don’t care about the provinces. And nobody’s been fired for their incompetence. And we intend to get on their case big time. This is a thunderous message for these people who have been put in positions of great power and have acted in the most irresponsible way. They’re not going to get away with it, and that’s what Northland is saying.

The thing is, Mr Peters, the National Party says that by-elections are a strange thing. This is just a blip in the road. Is it any bigger than that, do you think? Is it a significant turn in the road for John Key?
It’s a huge turn in the road. And every farmer here or forester or fishing interest that used to be National that came on to our side last night is sending a message to the National Party. They are members. These are people who are in the organisation of the National Party, who know that all their work and all their loyalty has not been repaid with some loyalty back. You don’t have a two-tier economy where the exporters, the wealth-creators, who bring money back to the family in New Zealand get treated this way, and so if the National Party think that this is a mere blip, then they’re in for a horrible future as a political party themselves.

So are you picking that this is the beginning of the end, heading towards 2017, for the National Party? This is the moment that you will identify as the decline?

No, the National Party can decide now whether they’ve got themselves a chance in 2017 by paying attention up here, rather than, for example, running an economy where the lifeblood is being sucked out of the provinces, and the wealth creators, for example, their obsession with Auckland. You can’t bring in 58,000 people in a year and only build 7500 houses. Those 7500 required by the new lot who are coming in each year. So where do New Zealand people fit in? And frankly, a lot of people here, whether they be young or middle-aged or old, are beginning to ask themselves, ‘Have I got a future in, for example, the north? And, indeed, have I got a future long-term in the country in the way I thought my parents had or my grandparents, for that matter?’ So, yes, it’s going to be huge. And I want to say this right off, if people like the ACT Party and the Maori Party and Peter Dunne think they’re going to play foolish games with this hard-won outcome, then I’m going to stop them. They’re not going to be throwing weight around they haven’t got. We created this change in New Zealand politics, and they are not, with one seat and virtually no support, going to change that.

So how are you going to do that? If you created this change, and it’s going to be about what you can achieve, how are you going to do it?
By being politically aware and by seeing downstream what it all means. We did not win this campaign because we’re naïve or inexperienced. We put into this campaign everything we knew about politics. And it doesn’t just go for yesterday; it goes for the next 2 ½ years.

So, Mr Peters, is that you saying you’re able to work more closely with National?

It means that you should let me finish the answer, because that’s what this election was about. It means that there’s been a seismic shift in the power structure of this country. And that now the government – whatever government it might be – has to listen to ordinary New Zealanders and not just run it for their own collective interests or as a famous American president once said, ‘these over-mighty subjects’ who have so much power in this country, even though they’re a small minority.

So does this mean they have to listen to you, though, Mr Peters? You say ‘seismic shift’, they need to listen. Do they need to listen to you?

Look, I can tell you watching this programme are farmers who are confronting the bank knowing that they haven’t got a great future. They need to listen to them. Those farmers were National. They probably still are. But they won’t be for long if the National Party keeps on ignoring them, keeps on telling them that they’ve got a rock-star economy. They haven’t. And we haven’t heard of that for the last six months.
During the campaign you’ve made some big promises to Northland voters – Northport, rail, Gold Cards, Russell ferry, etc. Do you think that you can work with National to deliver on those things?

Well, let’s look at Northport. It is our most natural port in this country, with a marvellous, deep harbour. It doesn’t require dredging that other harbours do. It’s got thousands of hectares of flat land lying behind it. And anywhere else in the world it would be seen as something that should be developed. It doesn’t even have a railway line. Now, look, for the last time in this campaign, get what that means. It means that they are trapped from realising their potential. And it’s essential for the province of Northland. Then you’ve got a rail line going to Auckland, being run down. The load of rail wagons heading down there at 5km/h in many parts.

So, will rail and the port be your top priorities, Mr Peters? You know, you’ve got to start somewhere, so would those likely be the places that you would like to see change?

You get my point. It’s not a matter of me promising it. I want to know why KiwiRail has been so remiss and negligent in terms of this most important infrastructure. I’m not promising anything other than they’re going to be answerable to the people of Northland on this matter. And when it comes to Northport, I want to know why the board of Northport, for example, came out during this campaign and said they didn’t want a railway line. Now, when I hear that, I hear people massively conflicted by their ownership and management against the interests of Northlanders, and I’m going to focus the Northlanders’ attention on that sort of behaviour. We’ve had enough of it up here.
Resource Management Act. You said that if it was sane and sensible changes that National wanted to make, that you were open to that. So what would that mean, for example? I mean, Peter Dunne wants to retain the environment coming first. Would that be where you’re at as well?
Look, when I was Foreign Minister, I opened an embassy in Stockholm in Scandinavia in Sweden, because the Scandinavians have a lot to teach us about how sound environmentalism is good economics. Now, this idea that you can just do what you like with the environment and somehow we’ll all survive is so wrong. I want to see a sound environmental development of the future because it’ll be so much better for New Zealand. But as an example, why should farmers pay all the costs? And I would ensure by tax relief and what have you that farmers head this process but they are required to do it. Not just thump the farmers, but say, ‘If you are part of this, we can all go forward together.’ It’ll mean a great future for our agricultural products as well. And so I want to see that sort of progressive approach to the Resource Management Act, and I want to see the costs cut massively. If I’m out here in the waters of the Bay of Islands trying to get an aquacultural farm going, it’ll cost about $1m-$1.5m even to go through the process. Now, whatever bunch of people down in Wellington are in charge of this, they have got to be – how shall I put it? Gazumped. They’re going to have to pay attention, and they’re going to have to make the process much more reasonably priced.
Mr Peters, Ria Bond is the next person on the party list for NZ First. What can you tell us about her?
What I can tell you about her is that we have not considered as a party that matter at all, because had we not won yesterday, the whole question was irrelevant. And I said so over and over during the campaign. We’re going to keep our eyes on the prize and winning. Now that we have won, your question becomes relevant.

No, but that’s why we’re wanting to know a little bit about her. We understand that you haven’t decided either way, but can you just tell us a little bit about her, seeing as she’s a potential.

Yeah, she’s a businesswoman from Invercargill. She’s worked hard for the party down there. Started an office and got it underway for us down there. Even though we didn’t have representation, we started a political office down there so that we could be in touch with the South Island people, in Invercargill and Southland in particular. She’s a person whose background is actually up here in the North. That’ll be of surprise to some people, but that’s where her genealogy goes back to. And she’s a very progressive, well-spoken person who, like the other candidates we’ve got in the wings, would make a very sound MP.
Okay, I just got one more question for you, Mr Peters, and it’s an important question. Are you committed to standing in 2017 in Northland? Can you guarantee two terms for Northland?
Oh, I am just so pleased that you are so concerned about my being fit and able and well in 2017 to stand. Let me tell you, having got over the big hurdle that is Northland on the 28th March – that’s yesterday – yes, I will be standing in 2017. But I wasn’t going to answer relevant questions on the way through when I hadn’t got over the first hurdle – victory here in the north.

Well, thanks for confirming that and joining us this morning, Winston Peters.

Thank you very much.

Transcript provided by Able. www.able.co.nz

ends

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