Key's Film Jobs Being Filled by Migrants
Overseas film making crew are pouring into New Zealand while The Prime Minister is in Los Angeles claiming Hollywood
investment in New Zealand creates jobs.
Speaking this weekend on TV3’s “The Nation” both Wellington City Councillor Jo Coughlan and NZCTU President Helen Kelly
agreed 400 overseas technicians had recently applied for visas to work at the Weta post production facility in
Wellington.
“Yeah we don’t object at all to the Prime Minister going to Hollywood and talking about bringing films here, and the
industry that it's creating is obviously very exciting, there's nothing that we object to in that model,” said Ms Kelly.
“ What we object to is some of the things that have run alongside that, like for example very free immigration laws
which have now changed.
“We've just seen Weta apply to bring 400 foreign workers in to do some core jobs in the industry that they should be
training and giving to New Zealanders.”
But Ms Coughlan said it was people coming in to up skill Kiwis across the board.
“The spinoff of these innovative creative people who come into our city, what's happening is they're up skilling the
people in our economy so that we're actually growing the whole pie, and in fact we're basically creating a whole new
industry of innovation and creative jobs,” she said.
“ It's incredible.”
Ms Kelly also claimed that the Hollywood producers might seek more concessions from the New Zealand Government under the
proposed Trans Pacific Partnership free trade agreement.
“What's at stake here for example is there may be very much restricted use of the internet as these Hollywood producers
try to protect their intellectual property<” she said.
“We've already seen that the interests of some of large corporates are not the same as New Zealand citizens, and they
have to be balanced.”
Long time anti TPP campaigner and University of Auckland law Professor, Jane Kelsey, was critical of the secrecy
surrounding the TPP proposal.
“What's we're seeing now are sets of rules that Hollywood wants that would make it virtually impossible to engage in
many of the innovative industries and practices on the internet, and it would turn ISPs into effective police of the
internet, on behalf of Hollywood,” she said.
But TPP proponent and Executive Director of the US-NZ Council, Stephen Jacobi, suggested that Professor Kelsey’s
concerns might be misplaced.
“Just because the Americans are advancing certain matters in the context of the negotiation doesn’t mean that they will
necessarily be accepted,” he said.
“I'm quite sure that New Zealand will be able to maintain things that it agrees or believes need to be maintained in the
course of this negotiation.”
'THE NATION'
JO COUGHLAN, HELEN KELLY, JANE KELSEY, STEPHEN JACOBI
Hosted by RACHEL SMALLEY
Rachel America invested $387 million in our film and TV industry last year, and Prime Minister John Key has been in
Hollywood this week looking for more business, and trying to encourage studios to make more films in this country. He's
offered incentives before, so what else does Hollywood want, and is it a price we're prepared to pay. We have a panel to
discuss all this. Let's go to our panel. Professor Jane Kelsey from the University of Auckland Law School, and a
long-time critic of Free Trade Agreements Helen Kelly, President of the Council of Trade Unions – Stephen Jacobi,
Executive Director of the NZ US Council, and in the capital Wellington City Councillor, Jo Coughlan. Welcome to you all.
Jo if I could start with you if I may. Taxpayers have subsidised Hollywood movies now to the tune of around $500
million. What are the benefits of that to Wellington?
Jo Coughlan – Wellington City Councillor
Okay, well look I just want to put it in context to start with. In Wellington so far we've had three Lord of the
Rings movies, we've had King Kong, Avatar, Tin Tin and currently The Hobbit. Weta Digital are currently working on five
films. James Cameron's moving here, you know the biggest grossing movies of all time, Titanic and Avatar. So the
director of those is going to be living here. You know this is very very big business and it absolutely is putting
Wellington and New Zealand on the world stage. And just in terms of dollars, feature films in Wellington generated $570
million last year and that’s doubled since 2008, and actually that’s pre The Hobbit figures. And also what it means for
Wellington in terms of jobs is 4000 full time equivalent jobs, and you know if you take the multiplier effects of those
around the nation, you're talking about around 20,000 jobs created in New Zealand on the back of this industry. And also
800 businesses in Wellington are connected directly with the film industry. So aside from that there's a whole lot of
other benefits as well, but in terms of innovative industries it's been off the back of the film industry.
RachelLet's just look at The Hobbit then Jo, are we subsidising you know The Hobbit $60 million or are we subsidising Weta and
Peter Jackson here?
Jo Look I think the point is that what we're doing is we're creating you know enormous numbers of jobs in New
Zealand that wouldn’t otherwise be here.
Rachel Are they foreign or are they domestic jobs though? Are we bringing people in with expertise into this country?
Jo Oh they're absolutely domestic jobs, I mean we've got 4000 full time equivalents in Wellington who are employed
on the back of this industry, and as I've already said around New Zealand you're talking about 20000 jobs, I mean that’s
electricians, it's labourers, it's caterers, it's designers, it's seamstresses. It's across such a wide variety of
sectors across the economy.
Rachel Okay, let me bring Helen Kelly in here from the Council of Trade Unions. Helen the government now is considering
increasing its subsidy. John Key says it is a three billion dollar industry. At the moment we're subsidising to the tune
of 15%. That could almost double. It is a three billion dollar though he says.
Helen Kelly – CTU President
Yeah we don’t object at all to the Prime Minister going to Hollywood and talking about bringing films here, and
the industry that it's creating is obviously very exciting, there's nothing that we object to in that model. What we
object to is some of the things that have run alongside that, like for example very very free immigration laws which
have now changed. We've just seen Weta apply to bring 400 foreign workers in to do some core jobs in the industry that
they should be training and giving to New Zealanders. We've seen the Employment Law change, basically removing all
employment rights for workers in the film industry, and we're seeing the secrecy. I mean your introduction piece there
that you showed at the beginning of the show, all the secrecy around the TPP Agreement, around the discussions, around
what's going on with Dotcom. It's alright for Key to say there's a lot of conspiracy theories, if he made this
transparent, opened up what those American companies are seeking from us in exchange for this, then we could make a
judgement, an open and fair judgement. And the other thing is that we are seeing jobs in this country going out the
window all over the place. And why is the government also not putting the time and energy into looking into those
industries? Manufacture, over 100,000 jobs in manufacturing. Why isn't the government looking at those as well? Why
aren’t they for example spending six million, allowing Kiwi Rail to make our trains here. Long term engineering,
building, fabrication jobs?
Rachel Some would argue though if you're going to subsidise those industries then why not the screen industries?
Helen Oh well we're not arguing about subsidising the screen industry. What we're saying is what's good for the goose
is good for the gander. These are long term permanent jobs with employment rights in New Zealand. The government seems
to favour Hollywood, and what we're worried about is the tradeoffs that we see going on, and really affecting our
economy.
Rachel Jo Coughlan, Helen Kelly says 400 migrant jobs coming in here, that’s not domestic jobs is it? That’s people
coming in to take those jobs?
Jo No, but I'm glad you’ve mentioned that, because actually what that means is it's people coming in to upskill
Kiwis across the board.
Rachel Or is it people just coming in and then bouncing back out, going back to Hollywood and Bollywood and places like
that. They come in, get the cash and then leave again.
Jo No not at all. I mean diversification is really really important for the Wellington economy, and this industry
has enabled our economy to diversify, not just in the film industry, but across digital innovative creative …
Rachel But if these people have been coming in and upskilling people …if they have been coming in and upskilling people
then they wouldn’t need after all these movies we've already had, to be bringing more people in again to upskill people.
We'd have those people here ourselves.
Jo Well Rachel just let me talk to you about growing the pie, and I'll just give you the example of a company
called Matakina who you know have used international visual imaging technicians to work with them in their biomedical
business, which is based here in Wellington, and now what they're actually doing is they're taking breast screening
technology to the world, and they're deploying that in Europe and America. The spinoff of these innovative creative
people who come into our city, what's happening is they're upskilling the people in our economy so that we're actually
growing the whole pie, and in fact we're basically creating a whole new industry of innovation and creative jobs. It's
incredible.
Helen There is no market test on those 400 jobs. The government changed the Immigration Law to favour these industries
to bring migrants in. If you want to bring in a plasterer or an electrician you’ve got to show there's no New Zealander
able to do the job. Why has the film industry been exempt from that, and been accredited, able to bring in these roles
without any market test to see whether there are Kiwis that can do these jobs. Whether this is truly upskilling and
replacing New Zealand workers.
Rachel Okay let me bring in Professor Jane Kelsey here. Jane, John Key had dinner in Hollywood with Chris Dodd, he's
from the Motion Picture Association of America. What do you make of that dinner? Do you see any danger if you like in
that dinner?
Jane Kelsey – Auckland University Law School
Well there's been a lot of attention paid to the Dotcom link, but the real subtext of the visit to Hollywood is
what's happening with the Trans Pacific Partnership negotiations. The movie industry and the music industry are the two
biggest copyright lobbies in the US. They’ve been trying to develop global rules that bind countries to intellectual
property in particular regimes that suit their interests. There was a failed attempt to do that with something known and
The ACTA Agreement, and even that compromise is being knocked out because of big protests in Europe. So they see the
Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement as basically the vanguard through which they can drive these new rules. We know that
the Prime Minister's a deal maker, and there are real risks that already secretive negotiations are going to be
compounded by secret deals that he does in Hollywood, at the same time as the Lee G Weiss negotiators were in Wellington
this week, pushing the same rules in secret in discussions in Wellington. And I spose the sad irony for some of us is
that this is one area of the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement where our negotiators have been standing firm for two
and a half years saying no to what Hollywood is demanding, and they now risk having that ground undercut from them, by
what John Key is doing in Hollywood.
Rachel Let me bring you in Stephen Jacobi, because this is what makes Kiwis' hackles rise about the TPP isn't it? That
we are in essence opening the door to the Americans and before we know it, we'll see more Kim Dotcom sagas and elements
like that unfolding here. America will have too much influence over what's going on in this country.
Stephen Jacobi – NZ US Council Executive Director
Well in a poll of New Zealanders views that we released on Friday, over 60% of New Zealanders said they wanted
New Zealand to connect more with the rest of the world, and TPP is just one of the ways of doing that. It is complex, it
is a broad undertaking. It's still a work in progress. We don’t know what the outcome will be, and I think our
negotiators are very conscious of both the benefits and the risks that apply to this negotiation. It's said that it's
held in secret. It's not a very well kept secret if that’s the case, and stakeholders like Jane Kelsey will have every
opportunity to participate in the negotiating round when it takes place in Auckland.
Jane Stephen that’s not true, you know that those negotiations are closed door negotiations, and the reason that we
know about the intellectual chapter is because successive leaks, and the government has not opened the door to providing
information to us. Indeed we won’t get to see what deals they have made until the agreement is concluded. That is not
the way you make decisions …
StephenWell Jane is right that the negotiation is conducted in a confidential setting, and there are very good reasons for
that, because of the very sensitive economic and commercial matters involved. It's no different in this trade
negotiation as in any other negotiation, as in any other international negotiation. But what I think the point that
needs to be made, is that stakeholders have been given a much greater access to these negotiations than any other time
in the past. Every time I go into Foreign Affairs I see Jane Kelsey leaving. So you know I think more could be done
admittedly to tell people about the scope of these negotiations. I understand that. But for the time being this is a
work in progress, and we'll have the opportunity to see the result when the treaty comes before parliament and will be
considered.
Rachel How could we ensure then Stephen that the TPP doesn’t impact in any way on our sovereignty? Or, is it a given
that if the TPP goes ahead we will risk losing at least some of that?
Stephen Well I can't understand why any New Zealand government would want to trade away New Zealand's sovereignty across
the board. But the way to make sure that the negotiators are focused on what's important is for stakeholders like Jane
Kelsey and business interests, and the CTU and others, to maintain a very active dialogue with them, which is in fact
what happens. And as I said Jane sits down with the negotiators on a very regular basis, as we do, as Helen Kelly does,
and the government is very well aware of the risks that arise. Parts of the negotiation are completely transparent in
that regard.
Rachel Helen Kelly, are they transparent?
Helen No they're not transparent, and what's at stake here, it is very complicated, but what's at stake here for
example is there may be very much restricted use of the internet as these Hollywood producers try to protect their
intellectual property which is one interest, but as New Zealanders perhaps in smaller film industry and creative
industries want to use the internet to promote New Zealand culture and New Zealand industry, there may be for example
restrictions on employment law, because we can see that now, foreign investors criticising Egypt for example for
introducing minimum wages, saying well we're building stuff in Egypt, we didn’t have a minimum wage, we've got a trade
agreement, this could be a breach of the minimum wage law. We've already seen that the interests of some of large
corporates are not the same as New Zealand citizens, and they have to be balanced. And honestly if there was
transparency, openness, real debate, then people would be able to relax and see the issues as they are. But there's huge
secrecy.
Rachel Jane Kelsey, would you be happy with the TPP in some format, if sovereignty was protected in some way? Is there
a form of the TPP that you would be happy with if you like?
Jane Well it's actually a contradiction in terms, because what the agreement would do is bind the hands of New
Zealand governments into the future, and give foreign investors the right to sue and enforce many of those rules. And I
think ordinary New Zealanders need to understand what we do know from the leaks, which is that the Hollywood industry is
asking (1) for an end to parallel imports. (2) for an extension of the copyright powers which would make libraries etc
really do their budgets ….
Rachel But in saying that shouldn’t an American firm be able to come in here and protect their copyright? What's wrong
with doing that?
Jane Well there is a balance and copyright law, intellectual property law, has sought a very delicate balance over
many years. What's we're seeing now are sets of rules that Hollywood wants that would make it virtually impossible to
engage in many of the innovative industries and practices on the internet, and it would turn ISPs into effective police
of the internet, on behalf of Hollywood. Now that introducing the kind of secrecy and invasion of privacy issues that
we're seeing coming to the fore with the Dotcom saga. It's a quite scary scenario, it needs to be in the public domain,
and Stephen's quite disingenuous in saying that there is transparency. Any briefings we get are so obscure that they
tell us nothing.
Rachel Stephen Jacobi I will let you respond to that.
Stephen Well just because the Americans are advancing certain matters in the context of the negotiation doesn’t mean
that they will necessarily be accepted. And the same is true for New Zealand. We have some interesting things we would
like to achieve in this negotiation as well. That’s the nature of a negotiation, and there has to be some consensus
around those areas. Jane Kelsey mentioned ACTA a moment ago. The United States tried similar tactics in ACTA and was
unsuccessful, and I'm quite sure that New Zealand will be able to maintain things that it agrees or believes need to be
maintained in the course of this negotiation.
Rachel Let me just bring in Jo Coughlan here. Jo, are you prepared for the sake of jobs pay this price? Essentially
we're giving up some of our personal liberty here potentially for a few hundred jobs. Is that worth it?
Jo Well I'm not sure if we are, I mean I don’t know enough about it. I mean I'm not a Trade Negotiator, and I'm
certainly not an IP lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that New Zealand's good at negotiations, because we've done a lot of
them in the past, and I'm sure that hopefully a fair and level playing field will be the outcome. But what I do know is
that this industry is very very important to New Zealand, it generates an enormous number of jobs, and it also provides
an amazing platform for us to develop IP and develop our reputation as an innovative you know creative country that does
a lot more than just produce milk powder and have nice scenery.
Rachel Sure, and there are benefits too for Hollywood, and it has this subsidy at the moment with 15% that could become
30% which would be extraordinary. Why then is Wellington having to pay to host the premier of The Hobbit.
Jo The Hobbit premier is a world premier and is going to you know be shown all over the world, and generate
enormous amounts of tourism benefit and promotion …
Rachel Possibly. Possibly. Well of course you know we see the red carpet don’t we? We see the stars on the red carpet,
there's a bit of glitz a bit of glam, but you know is it really making people think right I'm off to the capital because
that red carpet looks pretty good?
Jo Well you know it's all about telling the story isn't it, and if we don’t promote ourselves to the rest of the
world, then they won’t know about us. So this is another very good way of doing it, in a way that puts New Zealand in a
light which is incredibly positive.
Rachel What's it going to cost the Council though? Over a million dollars to host this premier?
Jo Oh around that, I actually haven’t got the exact number on me, but I can tell you that the return on investment
will be absolutely enormous.
Rachel Jane Kelsey is it worth hosting something like this do you think? A million dollars we've subsidised already.
You know you'll be considered a bit of a killjoy if you're saying no we shouldn’t host a premier?
Jane Well I'd like to see us as Helen has said, support our local industries to the extent that we support our
international ones, and one of the things that the Hollywood industry has been targeting in the Trans Pacific
Partnership is a provision that would allow some kind of special recognition of the needs of the local cultural
industry. And in fact that was introduced when Helen Clark wanted to introduce local content quotas like Australia has,
to support the local culture industry, and was told that a previous National government had already signed away the
right to do that in the World Trade Organisation. So these agreements have a long history of closing the doors for our
local innovation, our local industry and our local jobs, to get the advantages that John Key is now promising to
Hollywood.
Rachel Alright, we do have to leave it there, Professor Jane Kelsey from the University of Auckland thank you. Helen
Kelly, President of the CTU, Stephen Jacobi, Executive Director of the US Council, thank you too. And Jo Coughlan from
the Wellington City Council, thank you.
ENDS