'THE NATION'
RODNEY HIDE
Interviewed by SEAN PLUNKET

Sean Rodney Hide is with us now, good morning. You're to giving a valedictory speech. I take it then this is not gonna be a valedictory interview?

Rodney No.

Sean Alright what's the future then if politics is not over for Rodney Hide?

Rodney Hide – ACT MP
Oh I think politics is over for me, but I always think a valedictory is sort of like when you're old and you retire, and I'm not old and I'm not retiring.

Sean Okay, what are you doing then?

Rodney Well funny enough I've been pretty busy finishing up everything I've got as MP for Epsom, because I've had constituents' cases that I need to fix before I leave. Normally I'd be saying I'll get to that after the election, I can't do that now, and I've had a pretty big programme to get through as Minister and I'm trying to get as much done so it continues after I've gone. And then what I do next well I'm not sure.

Sean Is politics still a possibility then?

Rodney No.

Sean No question about that? You will not re-enter national politics?

Rodney No.

Sean Why not?

Rodney Oh I think, look, it's a huge privilege to be a parliamentarian and it's been a huge privilege to be MP for Epsom, and then to be a Minister, but you know it's time for others to actually step up and do that, and for me to step on and do the next thing.

Sean Let's look at ACT, the party that you helped found, the party that you led or fought to be leader of, and at the end of the day were outfought to lose the leadership of your successor, as leader Don Brash has not led the resurgence that he promised. There must be part of you that is sitting here saying well I told you so?

Rodney No, not at all. I think it's very important under MMP that ACT succeed. John Key's going to be the Prime Minister after this election, that’s very very clear, but it's gonna be – what's the government gonna be like and I'm afraid if John Key's in government say with the Maori Party then you're going to see a lot more division and a lot more separatist policies, and what you need is ACT to success, because the Maori Party's for Maori and the ACT Party is for one law for all. And I think that’s very important and the way to achieve one law for all is to give your party vote to ACT and to help John Key.

Sean But this isn't what ACT was founded on. ACT was founded on economic policy on the policies of Roger Douglas.

Rodney Sure, and I was gonna come to that too, because the nature of John Key's administration is he's gotta reach the middle ground, and what we have with ACT particularly led by Don Brash, who laid out really a manifesto in the 20/25 Task Force, is here's what New Zealand needs to do if we're gonna succeed economically. And again that’s only going to happen if people give their party vote of ACT. And I don’t think that people have clicked into the election thinking about MMP, thinking they’ve got two votes. They're on the Rugby World Cup. When they come to it if they want one law for all, if they want to have a better economic future, then they’ll be giving their party vote sufficiently to ACT to support to John Key.

Sean So has race replaced law and order as the sideshow that allows ACT to get enough votes to deliver the economic policy, or have influence in the economic policy?

Rodney No ACT in my view has always been a classical liberal party, which means you stand up for the individual, and you stand up for the individual rights, and that means one law for all. That means actually being safe at work and in your home, and on your streets, and that’s why you need law and order. And you need a policy that allows us to prosper, and that’s what ACT has always been about. It's never deviated from that, and if you have one law for all, that’s not a race based policy, that’s the opposite. What we have in New Zealand now is increasingly race based policy, and ACT has always been consistent on that.

Sean So you endorse Don Brash's views on race?

Rodney On one law for all, absolutely, it's inherent in ACT.

Sean And you believe we have a problem with that right now in this country?

Rodney Yes.

Sean And that what? ACT is the only party that’s addressing it?

Rodney Huh! Absolutely. Sadly I wish it wasn't the case, because as Don Brash has observed you know the National Party stands for one law for all, it's just their policies don’t always agree with that, and that’s why it's so important that ACT succeed at this election.

Sean I'm wondering Mr Hide whether or not your refusal if you like to go feral on ACT and those who pushed you out of the party, is because perhaps your future depends on the links the friendships the associations you’ve had over a long time with ACT?

Rodney No, not at all. I don’t go feral because what's the point?

Sean Well some would say you made a parliamentary career out of going feral.

Rodney I made a parliamentary career about being a good Opposition MP, as best as I could be, holding the government to account and standing up for people, and I think it's very important that ACT succeed for our country. We've got MMP, and I think the values and principles and the philosophies of ACT are very critical. Don stood for those when he stood for National Party leader in 2005. He got 39%. Yes he involved me as leader. He's now the leader of ACT and I look around and I support the party that follows the best philosophy and that’s ACT.

Sean Alright, what would you say then to voters in Epsom? Do you think that John Banks is the right person to carry the torch?

Rodney Yes, because he people of Epsom are smart enough to figure it out that if they want to help John Key the best thing they could do is vote for John Banks.

Sean So he's got your total endorsement?

Rodney Yeah.

Sean Alright. Let's look at if you’ve got a political legacy, and I guess it is the one major policy that an otherwise incrementalist National Party has introduced as government was the Super City, a very controversial and difficult reform, which is part finished, with the creation of the city itself, Len Brown winning the election. Do you depart looking at that job and saying it's finished, or do you feel that you'd still like to be involved in some way?

Rodney Oh it's finished as far as me as Minister of Local Government is done, and I'm very proud of it, and I think it's going to make a huge difference to Auckland into the future. It's going to succeed economically, culturally, as a vibrant city, because we have now one city, and it's going to be good for New Zealand. I'm very proud of the achievement, it's a big job. But it's not the only achievement, I'm very proud of Three Strikes. The fact that for the first time we reversed governments being soft on recidivist violent criminals, we now got the Three Strikes legislation. That’s going to keep people safer. I'm very proud of the fact that I was able to help in Education in Special Needs, and make a big difference to a lot of kids' lives, and to enable kids with special needs enter mainstream schools. I think that’s a wonderful policy that New Zealand is leading the world on.

Sean Are you proud that you led the charge or were on the side of the angels as I'm sure you'd perceive it in terms of Winston Peters?

Rodney Look I find Winston Peters a very charming man, and he's an extraordinary politician, the likes of which we've never seen in my lifetime in New Zealand. He just should never be in parliament in my view.

Sean Why not?

Rodney He's dishonest.

Sean Give me some examples.

Rodney Oh, he speaks in riddles. He doesn’t like speaking the clear truth. When he gets into a position of responsibility rather than doing what's best for New Zealand he does what's best for him, and I think a guy of his talent, if he'd put it to doing what's best for New Zealand he would have been a tremendous leader and politician. But the trouble with Winston is it was always about Winston.

Sean Some would say though he has jumped on and used the same sort of issues that ACT has used over the years to get votes, to get attention.

Rodney Well I would disagree with you on that.

Sean Law and Order. Race.

Rodney Well I don’t think ACT has campaigned on race, it certainly has campaigned on law and order and our difference with Winston Peters is that …

Sean I'm sorry Mr Hide, you’ve just told me that Don Brash, one of the things that Don Brash offers is his stance on race and one law for all?

Rodney Yes. But that’s not campaigning on race, and when I think of Winston Peters he's the guy that campaigned against people. He was the guy that campaigned against Asians for example coming to New Zealand. ACT's never done that. ACT's always said to let's treat everyone equally. That’s quite different to what Winston Peters has been saying.

Sean Looking ahead for Auckland, the draft plan which you’ve helped launch, the 30 year draft plan, let's run through the hopes and perhaps when you think they’ll be achieved. An inner rail loop, do you think it's gonna happen and when?

Rodney I don’t know. My hope is that the plan is out for consultation, and then the Council's going to conclude their plan. And I'd hope that the new government will support the plan, as long as it's fiscally neutral if you like for governments.

Sean Second harbour crossing?

Rodney Again, same point.

Sean Okay, rail to the North Shore?

Rodney Same point.

Sean And outer rail loop.

Rodney Same point. But I mean I do think it's important we've made Auckland. Auckland's now a powerhouse. Auckland can now make its decisions, and it's my view that central government should get behind Auckland.

Sean Central government's also saying that Auckland needs to pay its own way.

Rodney Yes.

Sean So do you support the idea for example of a congestion charge in Auckland to fund some of these projects to get them out of the never-never into the here and now?

Rodney As a private citizen I do, as the Minister of Local Government I couldn’t comment.

Sean Alright, you're not gonna be the Minister of Local Government…

Rodney As a private citizen I do.

Sean Okay so you support the idea of a congestion charge, or Auckland finding an alternative funding way to pay its way.

Rodney Yes.

Sean The other major part of that draft plan is the southern initiative which takes a pretty hard look and disturbing look at socio economic trends particularly in southern Auckland. Some might say the picture that is painted there of a disadvantaged group of Aucklanders, is the result of the sort of economic policies that ACT has promoted.

Rodney The left will always say that, but in my humble view it's this. If we're going to lift people out of poverty, first of all you need a strong and growing economy, and you need good economic policy to do that. What does that mean? It means low tax, less red tape. Second of all what traps people in disadvantage? Well funny enough it's benefits that mean that when you go to get work you're seriously disadvantaged. Why is it that a solo mother on the DPB faces the highest marginal effect of tax rate in the country, and it's always been part of ACT's policy to say let's actually have a welfare policy that encourages people to get ahead, not actually traps them in disadvantage and poverty. And that’s again why the same with our education policy. We say why not actually fund the kids and if they can find a better school, a private school, why can't they go to an independent school, a Christian school or a Maori school where they’ll get a better education. Why actually have the state run monopoly and reinforce the disadvantage that we're seeing? And what we're seeing in New Zealand sadly, is welfare spinning down the generations, and trapping people in poverty, and it needs a circuit breaker to break it, and that’s what ACT is about.

Sean I want to get personal if we can now. I look at you sitting here and I knew you when you came into politics. It's a very different man that I look at now, and a man who was reluctant to get into politics, cos he didn’t want the limelight.

Rodney Yeah I was very nervous and scared at the start.

Sean It's changed you hasn’t it?

Rodney Of course.

Sean Do you think you would have changed without the politics?

Rodney No. No politics has been marvellous. Look I think it's a great privilege and then but it's also been a big challenge personally, and so you grow and you learn as you do the job, and it's helped me a lot. It's made me a more confident person. It's made me more self assured. It's made me a prouder Kiwi, and I'm very proud of my achievements in parliament.

Sean But you’ve lost other things besides a bit of weight. You’ve lost one marriage, started another one. Is that down to politics as well?

Rodney No. No, I think a lot of people go through a difficult time in their personal lives. I don’t think you can put that down to politics. You know these things sadly happen. They're very very tough. I think politics makes it tougher.

Sean So your midlife crisis as people call it would have happened anyway?

Rodney Oh I've had thousands of life crises. Look I look at myself quite lucky. I looked at those shots and I came into parliament, and I go out of parliament and I've lost 40 kgs of weight. I'm healthier, I'm happier, and I have a beautiful wife and a young five month old baby. So I'm a very very lucky person.

Sean Do you think most politicians can look at the ledger at the end of 15 years in the House and say they came out the other end better in all those ways?

Rodney No, I think a lot of them, and hopefully you know fingers crossed, I think a lot of people end a bit bitter, and angry, and I certainly don’t feel bitter and I certainly don’t feel angry. I think we're very lucky to live in a democracy and it means you actually accept the result, and I accepted the result. I put my name forward, I got elected MP for Epsom, which is a proudest moment, and became a Minister. But it's democracy, and then when the numbers go against you, you accept it and you move on. And the wonderful thing about living in a great country like New Zealand is there's a thousand and one ways to be productive and make a contribution.

Sean Given that you say you are not going back into national politics, you will not be back in parliament, do you think you’ve achieved what you set out to achieve in your maiden speech, and you said you wanted a New Zealand where people kept more of the money they earned, and particularly where New Zealanders could retire with a self-funded nest egg that allowed them to live essentially in some sort of dignity, also less spending from government. Are those things achieved after Rodney Hide's 15 years?

Rodney No. And that’s why I support ACT, because we have to achieve it. We have to achieve it for the sake of ourselves, for the sake of our country, and for the sake of our grandchildren.

Sean Does that mean you’ve failed then as a politician, or do you think you moved the ball up the field?

Rodney Well I'd hope that I moved the ball up the field, but you know I think New Zealand does need to wake up, and I think you know the global financial crisis, I think Christchurch earthquake is a bit of a wake up call, that we do need to lift our game, and I think John Key supported by ACT will need to be lifting New Zealander's sights and lifting our game post this election, because otherwise we're just gonna slip below the rest of the world and see Australia continue to go ahead. And I think it's a tragedy that so many young New Zealanders are going off to Australia and are contributing there or further afield, and contributing there when we want them contributing here.

Sean Final question. Will you ever wear the Yellow Jacket again?

Rodney Funnily enough I was getting my suit on and I saw it in my wardrobe and I had a wee tear cos I was thinking I wouldn’t mind putting that out and having a run around the country this election.

Sean But though the Yellow Jacket will never be worn again?

Rodney No I wouldn’t say that.

Sean Thank you for joining us. Rodney Hide there.

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