ORAL QUESTIONS

QUESTIONS TO MINISTERS

Question No. 1—Prime Minister

1. TODD MULLER (Leader—National) to the Prime Minister: Does she have confidence in her Minister of Health?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): Yes. We are both clear that what has happened was utterly unacceptable. This was a failure of the system, which has not met the expectation of Ministers, including Dr Clark. Minister Clark is working hard to fix the issue and make sure it does not happen again. This needs to be considered within the context of New Zealand's COVID-19 response to date. With Minister Clark as Minister of Health, we have now reached roughly 47 days since the last recorded case of unknown transmission. No other comparable country has achieved the same consistently low case numbers as New Zealand, and there are still over 100,000 new cases of COVID-19 every day globally.

Todd Muller: Is she confident that the Hon David Clark impressed upon the Director-General of Health the significance of ensuring COVID-19 testing and quarantine criteria were followed, with no room for error because of the stakes being so high?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Absolutely. In fact, he was given an assurance around the testing regime for those in quarantine and managed isolation.

Todd Muller: How can she have confidence in the Hon David Clark, when two people can leave managed isolation without being tested, as required by the Ministry of Health protocols, putting the entire country at risk?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: For the very reason the member has set out: because this did not meet the stated protocols of the Ministry of Health or the expectations of the Minister of Health. This has been a clear failure of the system, one that we are actively seeking to address. For now, that includes suspending the ability to access compassionate leave, and we have called in the Assistant Chief of the Defence Force to make sure that we can have confidence and rigour in the system. [Interruption]

SPEAKER: Order! I just want to say to members that when a Minister is answering a serious question, where I'm sure just about everyone wants to hear the answer, having members from both sides of the House—very senior members—having a separate barracking of each other is not helpful.

Todd Muller: Does she not see the Minister of Health as being responsible and accountable for the performance of his ministry?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We absolutely have to fix what happened here; that is undeniable, of course. But the Minister's job is to make sure that the protocols are in place; that the responsibility and protocols are being fulfilled. He has set down his expectations. They were not met. That is a clear failure of the system.

David Seymour: What message does the Prime Minister have for bereaved and grieving New Zealanders who will now be denied a compassionate exemption because her Government couldn't do simple things such as testing right?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I would again point out that we have to make sure that we have a rigorous and robust system at the border because it is our biggest vulnerability. Testing is just one part of that. I know the decision to suspend compassionate leave will not be popular but it's the right one. We have to be assured that we are keeping New Zealanders safe and that everything is being done within strict protocols.

David Seymour: How can the Prime Minister speak of aspiring to have the world's smartest borders when simple things such as testing travellers before they go driving across the North Island appears to be beyond her Government's Ministry of Health?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again, as I've set out, the protocol was clear. An error has occurred. Our job is to fix that. We brought in the Assistant Chief of the Defence Force to make sure that we have a rigorous, reliable system that New Zealanders can have confidence in. I would also point out that throughout this entire time there has been extraordinary pressure to loosen up border controls. We've had members from the Opposition calling our regime stupid for how rigorous it was. I stand by it. We now have a clear demonstration of why it is so important.

Todd Muller: Has the Hon David Clark told her why the two women who tested positive for COVID-19 weren't tested for the virus upon entering managed isolation?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: There is no excuse to be provided. It should never have happened.

Todd Muller: So why doesn't she turn to her Minister and say, "Own it. Step down. I'll put someone in charge who's competent."?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Because he is the Minister who has overseen over 40 days without us having unknown transmission in New Zealand. We have, as a team of 5 million, produced extraordinary results—[Interruption]

SPEAKER: Order! Order! Sorry, I apologise for interrupting the Prime Minister. I'd like to remind the two members quite close to me on my left that I have two mikes that are open, their leader has a mike that is open, and the Clerk has a mike that is open, and when they make noise at that volume, then I can't hear the Prime Minister. It may be that others can, but I can't.

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Because the Minister of Health has been utterly clear that the border has to be rigorous, it has to be robust, and it has to keep New Zealanders safe. There has been a failure that was not within our clear expectations. On the other hand, the member may wish to talk to his own members—member Goldsmith, who claimed that our border controls were fluffing around; member Collins, who called our border restrictions appalling; and member King, who said our restrictions were stupid because they should be opened up.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: Could I ask the Prime Minister as to whether a protocol demanding testing on day 1 and then on day 14, as was stated by the Leader of the Opposition on the Morning Report yesterday, for a boat demanding to come into Nelson actually worked?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No, that would not be the appropriate point in time for testing. The advice we have is that evidence suggests days 3 and 12, which exactly was our expectation.

Todd Muller: Has her health Minister advised her on whether any other people have not been tested when they should have been since the 8 June protocol was established?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The Director-General of Health advised us that the expectation was that anyone who had been granted compassionate leave should have been. He is now, with the Ministry of Health, working through whether, indeed, that expectation was met.

Todd Muller: Does she have any advice that suggests that there are more people that should have been tested on arrival in this country and who, now you have been told, have not been tested?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I just answered that question.

Todd Muller: Has the Prime Minister received advice as to whether any incoming passenger into this country has not been tested when they should have been tested?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I advise, again, the Director-General of Health directly advised the Minister and myself this morning that the protocol would have required anyone granted compassionate leave, which those members have lobbied for frequently and often, would be tested before having been granted it. He is now working through individual cases to assure himself that that has happened. I would remind the member that since this protocol has been in place, there are no known cases connected to anyone from managed isolation passing on COVID to anyone else.

Todd Muller: Why, two hours after Dr Ashley Bloomfield updated the nation on the latest COVID developments, was her health Minister unable to answer basic questions on those cases in a radio interview because he hadn't been briefed?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I reject the assertion that the member is making.

SPEAKER: Yes, and I probably should not have allowed the question.

Todd Muller: What does it say about the state of the relationship between the health Minister and her most senior health official that her Minister was not briefed on cases announced two hours before he did a radio interview?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I'm rejecting the assertion of that statement. What is very clear here is that the Director-General of Health and the Minister of Health are saying exactly the same thing: protocols were in place, they had not been upheld, it is not acceptable, it is being fixed.

Todd Muller: What level of incompetence needs to be served up by her Minister of Health before she finally sacks him?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The Minister of Health isn't the one saying we should open the borders.

Hon Chris Hipkins: Would we be more or less likely to see more of these types of cases if we moved with urgency to reopen the border with countries like China, as she has been urged to do?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: On the day that this issue happened, the Leader of the Opposition criticised the Government for not opening the borders. I stand by the fact that we have taken an incredibly cautious approach at the border—it's the right thing to do. There has been a failure in the system. We will fix it. We are fixing it.

Question No. 2—Finance

2. Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all of his statements and policies in relation to the economy?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): Yes, in the context they were made and delivered. In particular, I stand by our policies that have supported more than 1.6 million New Zealanders to stay in work through payments of cash grants for businesses, and our policies that have given us the opportunity for New Zealand to be one of the most open economies in the world at the moment.

Hon Paul Goldsmith: Regarding his statement this morning that he "shares the frustration" of the Prime Minister, who was angry at The Warehouse Group when they announced job losses, what would he have had them do?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well, what I would have had them do is what I think all businesses in New Zealand are doing: they're looking at every single option that is available to keep workers on board. We know of many small-business owners who have reached into their own pockets to make sure that they keep all of their staff employed—that is an example of New Zealanders coming together in the face of this crisis, and it's what we want everyone to do.

Hon Paul Goldsmith: Is he also frustrated with the employers of the 40,000 New Zealanders who lost their jobs in April?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I have a great deal of sympathy for all New Zealanders who've been affected by the COVID-19 pandemic. What we are saying is we want everybody to come together and do their bit.

Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does his frustration or the Prime Minister's anger do anything to help New Zealanders stay in work or find a job?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Over the last three months, this Government has undertaken the biggest investment in New Zealand's history to support people to stay in work and to support businesses to create new jobs. Every single waking hour of this Government is devoted to making sure we create jobs and support people to stay in jobs.

Hon Paul Goldsmith: Shouldn't his and his Prime Minister's focus be on a credible growth plan to save jobs rather than taking cheap shots at companies under stress?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Our focus is exactly as I articulated. It is on helping to create jobs. Right across New Zealand the feedback that we are getting is that businesses and employees appreciate what's been done to put in front of them around $11 billion worth of support for the wage subsidy scheme. The member should get on board with that spirit and actually support New Zealand businesses.

Question No. 3—Finance

3. GREG O'CONNOR (Labour—Ōhāriu) to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): The latest Westpac McDermott Miller Consumer Confidence Survey released yesterday did show the consumer confidence had fallen by 7 points to 97.2 in June. Westpac said that a drop in sentiment was not surprising given the economic impacts of COVID-19, and that the result was in fact "surprisingly moderate", likely owing to New Zealand's success in limiting the spread of the virus and the earlier than anticipated easing in lockdown restrictions. Westpac further said that this relative resilience in consumer confidence adds to other signs that the COVID recession may not prove quite as severe as initially feared. However, Westpac still expects weak GDP and a big increase in unemployment over the coming few months, something which we have been clear about from several months ago. That's why we are making the significant investments we are through the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund, to help New Zealanders recover and rebuild from this global pandemic.

Greg O'Connor: What reports has he seen on the global economic context for the New Zealand economy?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Last week, the World Bank released its latest Global Economic Prospects report forecasting the global economy to contract by 5.2 percent in 2020, the deepest recession since World War II. This recession is expected to be particularly acute in advanced economies, which are collectively forecast to contract by 7 percent. Similarly, the IMF Chief Economist said on Monday that the global economic crisis is "unlike anything the world has seen before" and its forecast in April of a 3 percent contraction for the global economy this year will likely be even worse in its June World Economic Outlook. As I've mentioned previously in this House, the OECD has also revised down its forecast for the global economy. All of these reports are useful reminders that despite some recent good economic news in New Zealand, the pandemic is still ongoing and will require a sustained response from the Government.

Greg O'Connor: What reports has he seen on the impact of restrictions as a result of COVID-19 on the economy?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: According to the Oxford University COVID-19 Government Response Stringency Index—a composite measure based on nine indicators—New Zealand has a reading of 22.22, tied with Taiwan for the looseness of the restrictions, below Japan, far below Australia, South Korea, the UK, the US, or China. This shows that our strategy of going hard and early is paying dividends with a far less restrictive environment for businesses and consumers, allowing New Zealand a head start for kick-starting our economic recovery.

Question No. 4—Health

4. Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) to the Minister of Health: Can he confirm Ministry of Health guidelines dated 9 June that people can only apply for compassionate leave from managed isolation after they have completed seven days of managed isolation and had a negative COVID-19 test; if so, how many days of managed isolation did the two confirmed COVID-19 cases announced yesterday complete before they left on 13 June?

Hon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health): In answer to the first part of the question: yes. That's why I am so disappointed that these rules were not applied in the latest case. New Zealanders made real sacrifices during lockdown; they rightly expected our border measures would keep COVID-19 out of the community. I'm advised that the two individuals, who have done everything that was asked of them, left on day seven of their managed isolation—meaning they had completed six days. They were not tested as required by the published guidelines, and there are questions over the thoroughness of the health checks completed prior to departure. That's why yesterday I required the Director-General of Health to suspend compassionate exemptions until the Government is satisfied that not only are the correct policies and protections in place but they are actually being followed.

Hon Michael Woodhouse: Has he asked for confirmation that the 196 other people granted compassionate exemptions from managed isolation were tested before they left the facility, and, if so, what was the response?

Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: That is an inquiry that is ongoing. Yes, I have sought that assurance.

Hon Michael Woodhouse: Were the two individuals, confirmed with COVID yesterday, accompanied on their drive to Wellington, and, if not, how can he be 100 percent sure that they did not stop during the trip?

Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: They were not accompanied, and I am assured that they have been the kind of people, and have demonstrated, that they have followed the protocols in place with their self-isolation plan.

Hon Michael Woodhouse: Has he seen reports that the two individuals went the wrong way on their journey to Wellington and came into close contact with the people who gave them directions?

Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: No, I have seen no evidence of that.

Hon Dr Nick Smith: Well, what do you know?

SPEAKER: Order! Dr Nick Smith will withdraw and apologise.

Hon Dr Nick Smith: I withdraw and apologise, Mr Speaker.

Hon Michael Woodhouse: Was he aware that the good Samaritans who assisted them were rewarded with a kiss and a cuddle, and would he consider that to be a close contact?

Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: I would be deeply concerned if that were the case. I have been assured that there was no contact on their journey to the place where they visited their relative in the Wellington region.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: Has he been advised of the details and facts behind the allegations in that last question?

Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: I have not. I have certainly asked the question about whether there was any contact at all, and I have been assured that there was no contact along the way. So I have certainly not heard that report, and if the member has actually heard that and not passed it on, that would be very deeply concerning.

Question No. 5—Economic Development

5. Hon JUDITH COLLINS (National—Papakura) to the Minister for Economic Development: Does he stand by his statement in the House yesterday that "There is a long, long list of projects in the Government pipeline of infrastructure projects, including housing and roads and schools and health and rail—far too many to take up all the time of the House recounting", and which of these projects, if any, will begin before the general election?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister for Economic Development): Yes, I do. However, I remind the member again that responsibility for the Government's infrastructure pipeline rests with the Minister for Infrastructure, and individual projects with the relevant portfolio Minister. In terms of the second part of the question, although I do not have ministerial responsibility, I am advised that a number of projects are already under way. For example, the Minister of Education advises me that construction has started on approximately 200 school rebuilds or expansions with a combined value of over $1.4 billion. He also advised me that at the end of May, around 1,200 schools have initiated projects worth an estimated $130 million since the school investment package was announced. I'm advised by the Minister of Housing that there are now 4,600 additional public homes with many more in various stages of construction. I'm advised by the Minister of Transport that construction is under way on around 40 State highway projects across New Zealand.

Hon Judith Collins: Which of the roading projects that he alluded to yesterday as being in the long, long list of projects will start before the election, if any?

Hon Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is a question to the Minister for Economic Development, who may also happen to be the Minister of Transport, but the question is to the Minister for Economic Development and, as he made quite clear in his primary answer, he is not responsible for individual projects in other portfolios. [Interruption]

SPEAKER: No, I don't think I need any help. Having listened very carefully to the primary answer, the Minister for Economic Development did make it clear that he had been receiving advice from the Minister of Transport on transport policies, and therefore it is fair to ask him the extent of that advice.

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: The Minister of Transport advises me that since lockdown alone, we've started construction on State Highway 51 Clive safety improvements in the Hawkes Bay; upgrades to the Northland line—that's $200 million from the Provincial Growth Fund—preparatory works for the Matakana link road; State Highway 16 Huapai to Waimauku safety improvements; the Medallion Drive link road in Auckland; State Highways 10 and 11 Puketona intersection improvements project; and the New Zealand Upgrade Programme. And that's just since the lockdown ended.

Hon Judith Collins: Which of these projects that he's just listed are new projects and which had already been announced before the lockdown?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: They'd all been announced since before the lockdown, but I would say they're not just projects that were put out in a press release, which is what we saw from the former Government. They're projects that have been announced, designated, planned, and funded, and now they're under way.

Hon Judith Collins: Does he agree with the 1 April statement of the infrastructure Minister, "the Government does not wish to see red tape stymy our eventual recovery" and that the Government is seeking projects that would have "an immediate stimulatory effect", and if so, why aren't there more?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: I agree completely with the Minister for Infrastructure on that, and there are a lot more coming in the pipeline.

Hon Judith Collins: And when are they coming, then?

SPEAKER: Order! The Hon Judith Collins.

Hon Judith Collins: And when are they coming then?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: All in good time.

Question No. 6—Education

6. MARJA LUBECK (Labour) to the Minister of Education: What measures is the Government putting in place to help employers to keep apprentices earning and learning?

Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): Apprentices are a significant investment for firms, particularly in the early years of their training, and they can be the first to be laid off when companies find that they have to tighten their belts. That's why today I announced that the Government will be providing businesses with up to $16,000 to help pay the cost of each apprentice for their first two years. Through the Apprenticeship Boost, up to an estimated 18,000 employers will be able to apply for funding of up to $12,000 per apprentice for their first 12 months of training, and up to $6,000 per apprentice for their second 12 months of training. The Apprenticeship Boost funding will run from August this year until April 2022.

Marja Lubeck: Why is it important for this assistance to be provided to employers now?

Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: This investment is key to helping businesses keep people on and give them confidence when they're making decisions about taking on new apprentices. This will be essential as we roll out and fast track infrastructure projects. Without support of this kind after the global financial crisis, apprentices were let go, and when the economy picked up, New Zealand struggled with huge skills shortages and had to pay more to find skilled workers from overseas. As a result, there were 40,000 fewer people in industry training between 2009 and 2017.

Marja Lubeck: How is Apprenticeship Boost linked to other assistance that this Government is providing?

Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: The Apprenticeship Boost is a cornerstone of a wider Government programme to keep apprentices in jobs and to support employers to invest in new ones as we rebuild the economy from the impact of COVID-19. Employers of apprentices will also have targeted financial support available through three related schemes, depending on their circumstances, which includes a beefed-up version of Mana in Mahi which was announced by the Minister of Employment this morning. More broadly, we've also removed the cost for learners and made apprentices and other vocational training in targeted areas fees-free for the next 2½ years.

Marja Lubeck: What response has he seen to Apprenticeship Boost?

Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: There's been very positive comment. I'm advised that Whangarei's Culham Engineering, one of the country's larger employers of young mechanical engineers, is delighted with the new scheme, saying, "this is a big help. I'm really grateful the Government has come to the party for this, not just for our business but for the kids we employ." Warwick Quinn of the Building and Construction Industry Training Organisation has said, "We've got a thousand people in the background looking to sign up, waiting for today's confirmation of the Apprenticeship Boost initiative. This wasn't on our radar at all three weeks ago.", and Business New Zealand has said that Apprenticeship Boost is good for business and "recognises this is not just course fees, but also the wage costs of having staff that need investment and skills to contribute to business productivity."

Question No. 7—Police

7. BRETT HUDSON (National) to the Minister of Police: On what date was he first made aware that the firearm licensing vetting procedure for the Christchurch shooter may have been deficient, and what actions, if any, did he take to ensure that the firearm licence regime's integrity was upheld?

Hon STUART NASH (Minister of Police): I have received no advice that the process was deficient. I was aware of some speculation in the media by some gun lobbyists less than a week after the shooting about the circumstances, but Police issued a public statement one week after the shooting—that was 22 March 2019—saying that the correct process was followed for the licence application. Three weeks after the shooting, on 8 April 2019, the terms of reference were agreed for a royal commission of inquiry. They explicitly include the question of how the licence, guns, and ammunition were obtained by the terrorist. As the Prime Minister said at the time—and I quote—"We will ensure no stone is left unturned as we examine as quickly as possible how the 15 March attack happened, what we could have done to stop it, and how we can keep New Zealanders safe."

Brett Hudson: Has he requested any additional information from Police following the news reports on 16 June 2020 reporting that the mosque terrorist was wrongly granted a firearms licence due to police mistakes?

Hon STUART NASH: Old story: no, I haven't.

Brett Hudson: Referencing the Ministers reference to the royal commission of inquiry in his primary answer, does the Minister hold the opinion that it is important that the royal commission of inquiry look into the process for granting the firearms licence to that individual?

Hon STUART NASH: I'll quote again a passage out of my primary answer. Three weeks after the shooting—8 April 2019—the terms of reference were agreed for the royal commission of inquiry. They explicitly include the question of how the licence, the guns, and the ammunition were obtained.

Brett Hudson: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was very directly at the Minister's opinion as to whether or not that was important. I don't believe he addressed that.

SPEAKER: The member can ask for opinions. I think that any reasonable inference from the answer would be that he wouldn't have agreed for it to be in there, as part of the Government, if he didn't think it was a good idea.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Minister as to which political party was in power when the set-up for the vetting procedures that that firearms licence was considered under happened?

Hon STUART NASH: Well, we know, Deputy Prime Minister, if it had been ours and yours in coalition, then it wouldn't be how it was today.

Brett Hudson: Will he defer further progress on the Arms Legislation Bill until after the report back of the royal commission of inquiry, given the questions being raised on the licensing regime?

Hon STUART NASH: I will ask that member a question: will he vote for firearms legislation that takes guns off gangs and makes it a lot harder for criminals to get guns and significantly increases the penalties for gun crime?

SPEAKER: Order!

Brett Hudson: If the Minister actually presents some.

SPEAKER: Order! Well, OK—well, I was going to intervene to make him answer the question. The member has used another supplementary on his feet. We'll just go on.

Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think that's an unreasonable interpretation. This is a serious, serious matter. Fifty-one people got killed by a gunman who may have had a licence that he shouldn't have had. He was able to procure guns because he had that licence. It's a serious, serious matter. For the Minister to fail to answer and simply ask the Opposition a question, and then for the Opposition to, in response to his really unacceptable approach, be penalised, I think does not bear fairness to the wider New Zealand public who want an answer.

SPEAKER: Well, I think the member would have had an answer if he didn't stand up and yell at me. It's a matter of learning.

Hon Gerry Brownlee: Your sensibility is more important than the public knowing what actually happened—unbelievable.

SPEAKER: The shadow Leader of the House will stand, withdraw, and apologise.

Hon Gerry Brownlee: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I take your point, but this is a particularly important matter. It's one that had the whole country gripped with some fear, particularly where I live, for some time. It would seem that while you may have been offended by the reference to you, an apology for that might have been more appropriate than allowing the Minister to skirt off answering the question.

SPEAKER: I'll make it clear: it wasn't even the reference to me; it was the fact that the member stood up and started yelling. I mean, it's just not acceptable behaviour in the House. The member knows that it is not, and, if he wants me to support him to get answers, as I was trying to do, then he needs to learn not to stand up and yell.

Question No. 8—Transport

8. CHRIS BISHOP (National—Hutt South) to the Minister of Transport: Is he still "reasonably confident", as stated in the House on 12 March 2020, that Cabinet will consider the recommendations from the Ministry of Transport on Auckland light rail before the general election; and has he seen reports from the Rt Hon Winston Peters that it is "clear as daylight" that Auckland light rail will not get Cabinet sign-off before the general election?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport): Yes, and yes.

Chris Bishop: Does he stand by his comment to this House two weeks ago, on 3 June, that he expects to take a paper to Cabinet about light rail in the coming weeks?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Yes.

Chris Bishop: Does he think his process around light rail is a good demonstration of the project being "prioritised and delivered on an accelerated schedule", as Cabinet agreed in May 2018?

Hon PHIL TWYFORD: I think it's a good example of a project where the Government is doing something that 91 percent of Automobile Association members have asked for. It's a project that reflects the importance that Aucklanders place on a modern rapid transit system in their city, and it reflects our Government's willingness to consider innovative financing arrangements to deliver that project, and we're determined to take the time to get it right.

Chris Bishop: Has he seen the comments of the leader of the Green Party, "I'm always disappointed in New Zealand First.", and does he agree with those comments?

SPEAKER: Order! If I thought the member knew that he was deliberately flouting the Standing Orders, there'd be a punishment. I'll go on the basis that he didn't know that he was, which is a very generous interpretation.

Question No. 9—Minister for Climate Change

9. CHLÖE SWARBRICK (Green) to the Minister for Climate Change: What are the Government's next steps for climate change action now that the Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading Reform) Amendment Bill has passed?

Hon JAMES SHAW (Minister for Climate Change): Now that the emissions trading reform bill has passed, the Government can finally set a cap on emissions under the emissions trading scheme (ETS). That cap will reduce over time as we head towards our goal of net zero emissions by 2050. The independent Climate Change Commission will provide advice about exactly how fast and how much to reduce those caps to ensure that we have both an effective and a just transition. With the legal networks now in place, our focus will start to shift towards practical measures to support Kiwi businesses and industries to upgrade to clean energy technology.

Chlöe Swarbrick: What kinds of actions to reduce Aotearoa's impact on the climate does he expect that we will see incentivised and supported by the emissions trading scheme's new sinking cap on emissions?

Hon JAMES SHAW: The whole point of an emissions price is for businesses to minimise the costs that they have to pay by reducing their impact on the climate. I expect that we'll see factories swapping out coal boilers, transport companies starting to order electric and hydrogen trucks, and the electricity industry getting on with building more wind, solar, and hydrogen generation. Businesses are not alone in this, of course, and I'm sure that the Minister of Energy and Resources will join me in encouraging businesses who want to make changes to get in touch with the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority to see what Government support is available.

Chlöe Swarbrick: Will polluters be able to get away with using so-called hot air credits from dubious overseas sources to meet their ETS requirements?

Hon JAMES SHAW: No, they will not. ETS units need to come from genuine New Zealand forests, and even if future Governments decide to allow the use of some international credits, they would need to be satisfied that their credits are genuine and have environmental integrity. For now, the ETS remains closed to international units.

Chlöe Swarbrick: Does he agree that the ETS alone will not be enough and that other policies to reduce the impact that transport, energy, and agriculture have on the climate will be vital?

Hon JAMES SHAW: Absolutely. The ETS is an important tool in the climate change toolbox, but we need to use the whole toolbox. That's why this Government has invested billions of dollars in clean transport options like cycling, buses, trains; required default KiwiSaver providers to stop investing in fossil fuels; banned new oil and gas exploration; started replacing coal boilers in schools and hospitals with clean heating alternatives; put solar panels on 25 schools, with many more to come; and funded electric vehicle charging stations nationwide, including on the Interislander ferry. And we know that there is more to do, and we will do it.

Chlöe Swarbrick: Supplementary?

Rt Hon Winston Peters: Supplementary question.

SPEAKER: The Rt Hon Winston Peters. I think there's trouble.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: Will hot air providers in New Zealand be able to access the ETS?

Hon JAMES SHAW: I suspect he's making a reference to the Opposition in terms of the output of hot air there, but I think that that would be against the Standing Orders.

Chlöe Swarbrick: Does he agree with the chair of the independent Climate Change Commission that "Now is not the time for postponements or looking the other way"?

Hon JAMES SHAW: Yes, I do. The climate crisis demands an urgent response, and the longer we delay, the harder and more expensive the challenge becomes. Our Government does not believe in kicking the can down the road. We know that in these challenging economic times, a low-emissions economy, creating clean and sustainable jobs in the cities and in the regions, is the best way to see Aotearoa prosper.

Question No. 10—Housing

10. NICOLA WILLIS (National) to the Minister of Housing: How many additional KiwiBuild homes, if any, will be built in the delayed Monark housing development as a result of her decision last week to increase the Government underwrite for that project from $19 million to $40 million, and will she extend taxpayer-backed underwrites to other private housing developments at risk of delay or failure?

Hon NANAIA MAHUTA (Associate Minister of Housing) on behalf of the Minister of Housing: On behalf of the Minister of Housing, to the first part of the question, 44 KiwiBuild houses will be secured at the Monark development. The underwrite that was approved covers 49 market apartments. I understand that there are only two out of that number that remain unsold. In the event that any homes are unsold at the completion of the development, these homes will be available for KiwiBuild purchases at KiwiBuild prices. To the second part of the question, at this stage, no.

Nicola Willis: Was it prudent and responsible to double the taxpayer underwrite for a private development that has been beset by problems and delays without even requiring any additional KiwiBuild houses get built?

Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: As was referenced by the Minister in an oral question on 28 May in relation to this issue, this is an exceptional circumstance by which current funding of KiwiBuild projects no longer have the same types of issues as were faced by Monark, which led to the underwrite.

Nicola Willis: Will she rule out increasing the taxpayer underwrite for the other KiwiBuild developments that, like Monark, have also had their completion dates delayed?

Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: As far as I can ascertain, based on a briefing I received today, no other KiwiBuild project has the same circumstances as the Monark development, and there has been no request for an underwrite.

Nicola Willis: Is the Government now underwriting non-KiwiBuild homes in the Monark development, and if so, is it now Government policy to provide underwrites to private developers building homes sold on the open market?

Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I'm not sure what wasn't clear in the first two answers, but what I can say, in addition to the answers that the Minister provided on 28 May, is that 49 market apartments have been underwritten in the current Monark development due to exceptional circumstances.

Hon Gerry Brownlee: Rubbish!

Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: That underwrote provision doesn't apply to any current KiwiBuild projects in front of the Government. What it does allow, however, knowing that the ground has been cleared and the project is ready to be commenced—

Hon Gerry Brownlee: Sorting out the donors.

Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: —is that more people will have access to affordable KiwiBuild homes within that project.

Hon Grant Robertson: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think Mr Brownlee's interjection is one that I certainly take objection to.

SPEAKER: One was clearly out of order. The member will withdraw and apologise.

Hon Gerry Brownlee: I withdraw and apologise.

SPEAKER: Further supplementary.

Hon Gerry Brownlee: Keep an eye on the returns.

Hon Grant Robertson: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.

SPEAKER: I'm just contemplating the member's future in the House today. The allegation that the member has made is a very serious one and it's been taken regularly very seriously by the House when raised in the House. I will require the member to withdraw and apologise but make it absolutely clear that on this matter today he is on his last warning.

Hon Gerry Brownlee: I withdraw and apologise.

Nicola Willis: Can other property developers apply to the Government for taxpayer underwrites on at-risk housing developments; and if so, where do they sign up?

Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I do not have responsibility for how other property developers conduct their business.

Question No. 11—Health

11. ANAHILA KANONGATA'A-SUISUIKI (Labour) to the Minister of Health: What recent announcements has the Government made about improving healthcare for South Aucklanders?

Hon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health): A few days ago, the Prime Minister and I had the pleasure of visiting the Manukau Health Park to bring the good news that the Government will fund improvements to facilities necessary to provide better healthcare for the people of the area. The $211.4 million we are providing will deliver up to four new operating theatres and 20 recovery beds; a new sterile services unit; over 40 new out-patient spaces; a new radiology hub, including a fully integrated breast-screening service; and an expanded renal dialysis hub. All of this will be underpinned by improved supporting infrastructure. Counties Manukau District Health Board (DHB) deserve credit for the high quality care they provide to the vibrant and fast-growing communities of South Auckland. This Government is delivering the modern facilities they need to provide that care into the future.

Anahila Kanongata'a-Suisuiki: What other work to improve Counties Manukau's facilities is under way?

Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: While at the Health Park last week, I had the opportunity to inspect the soon-to-be-opened Otago University Dental School, which I'm advised is probably the most advanced facility of its kind in the world. I'm also encouraged that work is progressing well on the second stage of the DHB's Tiaho Mai mental health unit so soon after I had the privilege of opening the newly completed stage one of this facility last year. I'm also advised that recladding work is progressing well at Middlemore Hospital's Scott Building. This work is important to me because this is a Government which is serious about making sure that, behind the public-facing exteriors, the vital inner workings of our health services are sound, well-maintained, and capable of underpinning the delivery of the high quality health services New Zealanders expect and deserve.

Anahila Kanongata'a-Suisuiki: How does the investment at Counties Manukau DHB fit into the Government's wider programme of health infrastructure investment?

Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: I became aware of the acute need for investment to fix up Counties Manukau's buildings and infrastructure very soon after becoming health Minister, and acted quickly to provide it. But this is work that should have been started before the need became acute. Clearly, there has been an ongoing failure to properly monitor the state of our hospitals for many, many years, and other health infrastructure too. It has been a priority for me as health Minister to ensure that we, for the first time, have a clear picture of the state of these assets. We now have this in the form of the National Asset Management Plan's stocktake of critical assets which was released last week. This is crucial information to guide the $10 billion in Crown investment in our hospitals that Treasury says we need over the next decade. I am proud of the fact that, in our first term, this Government is on track to deliver this, with $3.5 billion in investment to date, more than three times as much as the last National Government managed in nine years. But, then again, the previous Government could hardly invest much in our hospitals when it chose to ignore their deteriorating condition completely.

Question No. 12—Employment

12. Dr SHANE RETI (National—Whangarei) to the Minister of Employment: What groups do his employment programmes target, and against what outcomes will he measure their performance?

Hon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment): I want to thank the member for the opportunity to reinforce what I said yesterday when answering the exact same question, and that is that the employment programmes that I am responsible for primarily focus on young people who are not engaged in education, employment, or training alongside members of our communities who have had historically poor employment outcomes. To answer the second part of the question, last year I launched the Government's employment strategy, which focuses on delivering a productive, sustainable, and inclusive New Zealand. I measured the outcomes of our programmes through the objectives of the strategy, which include building a skilled workforce, supporting thriving industries and sustainable provinces, supporting an inclusive labour market, preparing for a changing nature of work, and building modern workplaces for a modern workforce. For example, through the lens of an inclusive labour market, I'm looking to see if there are improvements for those who have had historically poor outcomes. Over the past 2½ years, we've seen the lowest unemployment rates for Māori in over a decade, a clear indication, when measuring outcomes against the strategy, that our programmes are making a difference.

Dr Shane Reti: Does he stand by his response to written question No. 10272 this week that Mana in Mahi is available to all ages?

Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Yes, in fact we've just made some changes today—I'm glad that the member is following my press releases. Today, we announced an expansion of Mana in Mahi funded through Budget 2020, which increases the length of the programme from 12 months up to 24 months, increases the wage subsidy rate up to 16,000 for the first year and up to 8,000 for the second year, supports employers to pay for industry training courses fees, pays for extra education support such as literacy and numeracy training. In terms of the numbers, can I remind the member that Mana in Mahi is one of a suite of Government employment programmes that are happening at the moment, and all the Ministers are delivering: Minister Hipkins here, Minister Sepuloni, Minister Robertson, Minister Twyford, Minister Davis. The employment kaupapa is a team kaupapa, it's not just one Minister, and I'm proud of the work we're doing in the employment area driven by a great group of Ministers—and, of course, Minister Jones. I see Minister Peters looking at me—Minister Jones has done some terrific work in the provinces, provinces that were starved of funding and resourcing—

SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will resume his—no. I was waiting in vain for the question to be addressed, and I'm going to invite Dr Reti to repeat the question and invite the member, within the first half minute or so, to actually get to the issue he's been asked about rather than a general treatise on employment programmes.

Dr Shane Reti: Does he stand by his response to written question No. 10272 this week that Mana in Mahi is available to all ages?

Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Well, Mana in Mahi is going really well at the moment. As I said, we put a press release out today that covers all areas, and, in terms of the question, yes, I stand by that answer.

Dr Shane Reti: Why, then, when we made a phone call to Work and Income at 11:20 a.m. this morning and checked with a senior person, did staff confirm that people over the age of 24 definitely cannot enrol in Mana in Mahi?

Hon WILLIE JACKSON: We'll have to follow up on that. As I said, I'm not responsible for people who make mistakes. You have to understand, we've made changes in the last couple of days. I know you find that hard to understand because you keep putting up the same questions, but I'll be—

SPEAKER: Order! When I stand up the member sits down, and I certainly didn't put up any questions.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: In his employment programme's target, how many dollars exactly did Dr Reti get from him for the four projects, beginning with the four-lane highway Whangarei to Warkworth, the floating dock in Marsden, moving the navy to Marsden Point, and moving the Auckland port to Marsden Point, that he claims in a Whangarei advertisement he is doing right now?

Hon WILLIE JACKSON: I believe he got nothing.

Dr Shane Reti: Can he identify one Government website that states people over age 24 are eligible for Mana in Mahi?

Hon WILLIE JACKSON: I'll be very clear to that member again. The focus of Mana in Mahi has been on 18- to 24-year-olds. That has been the focus. We are now opening it up and broadening the whole Mana in Mahi site. We will get to the websites—you have to be a little bit patient—but you can ask another question tomorrow, and we'll have an updated answer.

Matt Doocey: Take it up again.

Dr Shane Reti: Supplementary.

SPEAKER: No, whose interjection was that one? Who just interjected then? Stand, withdraw, and apologise.

Matt Doocey: Withdraw and apologise.

Dr Shane Reti: Can he name one of his six employment programmes that is suitable for a non-Māori and unemployed 30-year-old hairdresser living in Northland?

Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Mana in Mahi, He Poutama Rangatahi—there's two for you. These are not Māori-specific programmes.

Marja Lubeck: How does he use the employment strategy to measure the Government's overall approach to employment?

Hon WILLIE JACKSON: What a wonderful question. The employment strategy encompasses the broad spectrum of employment offerings this Government has. For example, supporting thriving industries and sustainable provinces encompasses the Provincial Growth Fund, and the $1.1 billion investment to create 11,000 environment jobs in the regions. Building a skilled workforce is supported by the $1.4 billion apprenticeship investment this Government is making. Building modern workplaces for a modern workforce is supported by the recent announcements investing into research and development. Supporting an inclusive labour market is supported by the programmes I'm responsible for, such as He Poutama Rangatahi and Mana in Mahi, ensuring we take all New Zealanders with us. The changing nature of work is supported by our recent announcements for the fund, which is being set up to provide incentives and grants to encourage e-commerce and train more digital advisers. So the employment strategy encourages a whole-of-Government approach that provides—

SPEAKER: Order! Order!

Marja Lubeck: Supplementary.

SPEAKER: You're not serious! Marja Lubeck.

Marja Lubeck: How are his employment programmes contributing to positive outcomes for New Zealanders?

Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Kia ora. What another great question. Prior to COVID-19, New Zealand's labour market had been responding and growing in a positive manner in comparison to our major overseas counterparts. We had experienced the lowest unemployment rate in over a decade, the lowest Māori unemployment rate in over a decade, the highest employment rate for Māori since records began—

SPEAKER: OK, the member will resume his seat. He's had a good start at the question, he didn't get close to addressing it. Time for oral questions is now concluded.

Hon Stuart Nash: Supplementary.

SPEAKER: I'm sorry, I called the end of it, and, frankly, I think most of us have had enough.

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