Agenda: NZ First May Prefer Full Coalition

Agenda: NZ First May Prefer Full Coalition

NZ First MP Ron Mark has joined his colleague Peter Brown in pushing the benefits of the party going into a fully fledged coalition after next year's election.

Ron Mark said on TVOne's Agenda that there would be benefits in a full coalition.

"It's difficult being in Parliament so long and not ever having the opportunity to pull the tiller."

But he would not be drawn on which coalition partner NZ First prefers, except to say:

"Labour's probably the closest now to our economic policy now than they've ever been."

When asked about the possibility of a coalition with the National Party, Mr Mark had his doubts.

".there are people on the front bench of the National party which I would watch very closely in everything that they did."

On the future of the party's leader Winston Peters, Mr Mark said it was unlikely he would go any time soon:

"There's a lot more fight in Winston and I for one - let me reassure you I don't want to see Winston leave any time soon."

RAWDON Now New Zealand First is holding its annual conference this weekend, in most polls the party's running at much less than the 5% threshold it needs to hit if it's going to return to parliament after the next election, maybe Winston Peters will stand and possibly win the Tauranga seat but he won't say, and that underlines the party's absolute dependence on Mr Peters. Ron Mark is the party's only other high profile MP so what's he all about. He's in our Taupo studio and he joins Guyon Espiner now.

GUYON ESPINER – TVNZ One News
Well Ron Mark let's start with those socalled anti terror raids, just in the last half an hour the Maori Party have put out a statement condemning the Labour led government's actions in this whole thing and actually calling on the Minister of Maori Affairs to resign over this, do you think that the Maori Party is representative of Maori opinion on this issue.

RON MARK – New Zealand First MP
Good morning Guyon. No I do not think that the Maori Party is representative of all Maori on this issue. The Maori Party really needs to say to New Zealand clearly as to whether it stands for law and order or not, or whether it is just simply a collection of disparates and activists who seek to separate New Zealand. I think that is the very clear message that we need to hear from the Maori Party. We from New Zealand First believe that there's a process that must be worked through, the judiciary will make the final determination, it is the job of the Police where they find evidence that is cause for concern to lay the charges as they see fit and it is not for any politician or any political party or indeed for the government to interfere in that process.

GUYON Alright you have talked about there being possible gang links to these activities, what evidence do you have for that?

RON Well I have said it would be concerning to New Zealand First if we should find – now what we do know is – a couple of things – we know that small arms of the type military style have been reported by the Police as to be in the possession of these people, that they have some weaponry that they are searching for more. We know also that gangs have historically targeted armouries and collections of military style weapons. We know that over the years the Mongrel Mob in various raids have been found to be in possession of stolen military style weapons and we know that a large number of armouries, or collectors' armouries in the Wellington basin in particular some years ago were raided and that weapons turned up in the hands of gangs. We are concerned that if gangs are involved in the background…

GUYON Okay you’ve got a lot of concern about gangs and in fact you want to ban them by adding them to the list of terrorist groups, why haven’t you been able to convince the government to go ahead with that?

RON Well the Labour Party has its view of how we can deal with domestic terrorists or gangs or lawless elements inside of our country, so too does the National Party, New Zealand First's simply saying I think pretty much what the rest of New Zealand is saying that you guys have had 50 years to deal with this issue and it's still the problem that we see today, we still have people being shot in the streets, we still have homes being shot at by drive-bys, we've had a child killed in a home, and despite all the rhetoric from Pita Sharples and a whole range of other socially aware and very what we'd only describe as liberal MPs, gangs are still shooting at each other. We say that it is time now for tougher laws and specifically laws to outlaw gangs.

GUYON Okay when we're talking about politicians and law and order what should happen to Trevor Mallard for punching another MP in the lobbies of parliament?

RON Well I didn’t see it so I don’t know if he punched him or if he slapped him.

GUYON Well look he's admitted smacking Tau Henare three times.

RON Well smacking's not punching Guyon.

GUYON Punching with a closed fist.

RON Well okay, I would simply say that it's up to the Prime Minister to take the action that she as the Prime Minister sees as necessary and of course if that action is deemed by the public to be inadequate no doubt there will be consequences for that as there should be.

GUYON When we're talking about the rule of law in your own party, I mean you’ve only just decided to pay back that money that the Auditor General deemed unlawful $158,000 odd dollars, why has it taken you so long to come round to doing it?

RON Well let's be clear Guyon, there are those of us who believe and indeed there are ample legal opinions to say that the Auditor General is wrong, and I take particular exception to be accused of being some sort of thief Guyon and being told that I spent money inappropriately when I did not, so I'll be clear on that.

GUYON But let's just take this from the punters or small business person's point of view. Let's say that someone was looking over your books as a business person and they said that you owe the IRD $158,000 you wouldn’t have the luxury would you of quibbling over that?

RON Well Guyon that’s a totally different scenario isn't it, so I think Winston's told you journalists and those of you who have interviewed him time and time again, everything that New Zealand First spent was signed off before it was committed by Parliamentary Services, everything was approved by the authorised agencies. If by some judgement late Ron the Auditor General says that the Parliamentary Services gave those authorities in appropriately then that’s an issue but hey bottom line, the court of public opinion is a certain way, the party has decided that it will make a monetary transfer, the leader's announced that, we're moving on.

GUYON Okay, well let's move on, let's look to the future, let's look at your conference this weekend and the possible future of the party. Is there a future for New Zealand First without Winston Peters?

RON Oh look Guyon I think first up let's be clear. New Zealand First will play a significant role in parliament in the formation of government after the next election, you can be assured of that. Will there be a future for New Zealand First after Winston Peters, Winston is our founding leader, he still is iconic in the eyes not just of New Zealand First people of many New Zealanders who see the work that he's done over the years and I believe New Zealand First will go on and go forth. We are the third largest party in the parliament and we have been since 1996 Guyon and I don’t see that changing going forward at all.

GUYON Let me quote Doug Willerson to you, he says of Winston Peters, he is New Zealand First, New Zealand First is him, the two are inseparable. Do you agree with that?

RON Oh undoubtedly so and …

GUYON So that would mean that there isn't a future in the party without him then would it?

RON Well Winston will always be there in the background but you know there's a lot more fight in Winston and I for one – let me assure you Guyon, I don’t want to see Winston leave any time soon, he's the biggest piece of artillery in the House and he's a good leader and he knows some of those MPs in there inside and out and the institutional knowledge and the value that we can glean from him is immeasurable and the day that some of us move on heck you know I have a use by date Guyon, I know that, it's up to me to find my successor and bring them in and introduce them to the party, we all have that responsibility…

GUYON Many have said that you are the only one who could take over from Winston Peters, is that part of your goal?

RON I don’t have any such goals Guyon, people will judge me on my performance and my party will tell me what they want of me as we go forward.

GUYON Okay let's look at what might happen after the election, Peter Brown said at your conference yesterday apparently that it was his preference that the party should go fully fledged into government next time, is that your view too?

RON I think that’s a decision we make after the next election …

GUYON But what about your own view, he was able to give his personal view?

RON Well one side Guyon, it's difficult being in parliament so long and not ever having had the opportunity to pull the tiller and to be a Minister and it can be frustrating sometimes, but we've had some extraordinary wins.

GUYON You would like to be a Minister wouldn’t you, you wanted to be Minister of Police last time I understand.

RON I'd like the opportunity to contribute in a greater manner, but I can't complain about you know an extra 1250 Police Guyon and I've had some good victories for New Zealand First like the investigation into the Goon Squad and Corrections Department, okay it took four years to get there, if I'd been the Minister it would have happened in four minutes let me assure you of that, but you know we've made some big achievements. We've had big achievements, we've got good goals going forward and …

GUYON It has worked a lot better with the coalition arrangement with National, are you still suspicious of the National Party?

RON Oh Guyon I think those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes let's be clear about that, and there are people in the front bench of National who I would watch very carefully in everything that they did because they were the people who did that but hey if you continue to live and dwell in the past you never organisation forward. I think at the end of the day it's down to the deal and it's down to the numbers that you are given by the electors on the day and if New Zealand First has 16 or 17 MPs it puts us in one position, if we have five it puts us in another position.

GUYON Sure, politics is all about numbers isn't it, but it's partly about personalities too. Now there's a couple of strands here, one when you got yourself into trouble with the one fingered salute, you were doing that to Tau Henare, your leader was defending Trevor Mallard for smacking Tau Henare yesterday, I just wonder whether he's a real sticking point for New Zealand First in any potential coalition deal with National.

RON Well the one thing about Tau is you know him and you know what he will do, that makes him ironically easier to handle because you know exactly what's on Tau's mind, exactly how he thinks and how he reacts and how he behaves. The ones you worry about are the ones who don’t show their colours completely in whichever arena you're working in be that business, be that politics.

GUYON Would you veto Tau Henare from a National New Zealand First cabinet, I mean would you not do a deal with National if he was gonna be in there?

RON Well I'd see Tau as being the least of my worries.

GUYON Who's the greatest of your worries in the National Party?

RON Well that’s for me to think about.

GUYON I'm must wondering whether it is really credible for New Zealand First to have another crack with National given those personality clashes and as you say the history between the two parties.

RON I think it comes down to the arrangement and we need to think, we've had a couple of arrangements now, we've had full coalition, we've got confidence and supply, it comes down to the deal but more importantly Guyon it comes down to the numbers at the end of the day and I believe New Zealand First has something unique to offer the public, we have a solid track record that we've demonstrated, we have had some very positive wins for the constituencies that we seek to support and look after and we are a party that represents New Zealand and New Zealand's interests first, and we believe that the things that we should be treasuring and preserving are those things that are iconic Kiwi those things that are uniquely Kiwi, and I think a lot of New Zealanders share that same view now, and I think it's that strength that'll carry us forward.

GUYON Okay well all from me for the minute

RAWDON I'm going to throw this straight to the panel because there's been a lot of writing – Barry.

BARRY SOPER – Newstalk ZB
Well there were a couple of questions, because the story today from New Zealand First is clearly the paying back of the money. Now if you believe what you just said that the Auditor General's wrong why pay the money back?

RON Oh Barry you know full well because every second day someone from the media will ask when are you gonna pay the money back.

BARRY So you wouldn’t pay it if it wasn’t for public pressure?

RON Well I think at the end of the day the party has made a decision, the President and the Board have made that decision, the Leader's made that decision and we go forward and we do that.

BARRY You talk Ron about a monetary contribution, are you going to pay back the $158,000 you're said to owe?

RON The boss will make all those details clear to you Barry.

BARRY So you're not going to pay back all the money by the sounds of it?

RON Oh Barry that’s a terrible thing to say, the boss has told you that there'll be a transfer of the money to that amount and I think he's given you a time that that'll happen.

BARRY Well the boss told us about six months ago that there was going to be a transfer, he was on his way to China, I think the cheque may have got lost in that slow boat.

RON I think he also told you just recently Barry and the money was on term deposit and there's a roll over and I think he said November, I wasn’t actually at the conference yesterday.

RAWDON Have you been involved in this decision at all because it sounds as though Mr Peters has been the one and only person controlling this?

RON No what the caucus did is gave the leader the authority to you know manage this in the time that he sees fit and appropriate and the manner in which he sees fit and appropriate, so all the comments in answer to those questions all come from the leader. I just get on doing my job.

JOHN ROUGHAN – New Zealand Herald
Mr Mark I'm interested in looking ahead, next year, election, possibility of going in with either Labour or National. What in essence would New Zealand First be looking for from National if National end up being the one to hold most of the cards next time?

RON I think when I look at those things John I think we know a couple of things, Labour has particular agenda which we've often described as social engineering are somewhat more liberal socially, National the greatest danger of National is they want to sell everything out from under your feet, they want to go back to user pays, so the issues that we follow with each party are actually a little different. Labour's probably the closest now to our economic policy than they’ve ever been so that’s less of an issue. I think there are some things that we've already signalled that will be right on the top of the agenda firstly Suppression of Gangs Act, that’s the first thing, and people have – oh lowering the age of criminal responsibility, we have a bill before the select committee now, there's no assurance or guarantee that that bill will get approval of all the parties, but we've made it very clear that we want the age of criminal responsibility lowered to 12 and if we don’t deal with it this term it'll be dealt with next term if New Zealand First is in a position to make that. So those are two things that we have signalled very very clearly, very very specifically to both parties that will be on the agenda for discussion.

BARRY Can I just pick you up Ron on that Suppression of Gangs Act. Back in 1996 the first MMP election Winston Peters was trumpeting around the country that three whacks and you're gone for dealing with violent offenders. Now nothing like that ever happened so why should we believe that you're going to get tough with gangs given your previous record?

RON Well I think Barry there was a couple of things happened, one Jenny Shipley rolled Jim Bolger and then she rolled Winston Peters and we were out of government, and we've been out of government ever since Barry so does that answer your question?

BARRY You were in government long enough to enact something before Winston Peters finally got sacked.

RON Yeah well Barry we were in government long enough to get rid of the surcharge, to give free healthcare for children under six, to build a cardio thoracic unit.

BARRY But not to get tough on violent offenders.

RON We were working on – Barry you forget that we passed the anti association, the Anti Criminal Harassment Bill, we were tightening up and moving on some of that law and order issue, we got an extra 500 Police on the beat, but as soon as we got thrown out guess what National started doing, winding it back, so you know we're expected to build the work in seven minutes and these guys have got 70 years – give me a break.

JOHN Mr Mark, what is Winston's role a Foreign Minister doing for New Zealand First right now?

RON Well I think what he's demonstrating is that those who said that he could never take a serious appointment were wrong, what's he's demonstrating is that those who said that he could never stick to an agreement were wrong, what he's doing is those who said that he would not be able to handle that job, he's demonstrating that they were wrong, and in fact he's gone on further than that to demonstrate that his relationship with Australia, his relationship with the United States, is a little special, it's a little unique and particularly his relationship in the South Pacific with South Pacific leaders, Pacific Island leaders is particularly unique and that’s made us as a nation all the more strong and all the more credible for that.

JOHN That’s good for him but what's it doing for the party, for your profile in this country?

RON Well I think you know people aren’t thick, they can see these things and they see that New Zealand First is a mature sensible stable party who's got very specific objectives and when they say they're gonna do something they do it.

BARRY Well no that’s not quite the case though is it Ron when you consider that before the last election a speech that Winston Peters made in Rotorua said that he wasn’t going to go into coalition with anyone. Immediately after the election he starts talking and in fact accepts what he – well what he would hate to describe as a bauble of office, probably the biggest bauble the Foreign Affairs portfolio?

RON Yeah accept was the key word Barry and I'm glad you said that, he was offered that job and there was a lot of discussion as to whether we should or should not take it, we did not go into coalition.

BARRY You sold out.

RON Well Barry you can say that, you know a lot of people don’t, a lot of people say that given the circumstances we were offered an opportunity to provide supply and confidence that gave us a little different leverage, but hey National was offering the same thing Barry.

BARRY No they weren't, they weren't offering the Foreign Affairs portfolio.

RON Well Barry that’s what you say, and that’s what some people might be saying to you right now, but that’s as we understand was the case and already we've got National confirming that they're happy to have him carry on as Minister of Foreign Affairs. So going forward that’s all we focus on right now Barry and right now I think at the end of the day, in fact whenever I travel around the country people are quite happy with the job that he's doing Barry. I mean you have a bit of history going back to the United States we all know that don’t we Barry?

GUYON Ron if I could just jump in here, I'm just wondering when Brian Donnelly goes and it opens up a vacancy, there's been some talk about the party getting Dale Jones back in parliament, is that the strategy to pass over a couple of those people on the list and go straight to Dale Jones?

RON Oh look I can honestly say Guyon I am not aware or conversant with the discussions that are going on with the other people on the list, I do know Jim's got a very good job that he's thoroughly enjoying, so whatever discussions are happening between Susan Baragwanath and Jim and the boss and Dale I mean they are privy to and we will know in time what the final decision has been, not all those people have to come, you can't compel them and let's be clear Guyon, I mean taking up a post as an MP stepping aside from a job you’ve got one year from an election would you do something like that, I don’t know. each individual has personal circumstances and we must respect that.

RAWDON Mr Mark just very quickly, you're saying that people are comfortable with how the party is progressing at this stage yet there's a question mark over the percentage you're polling. Do you think that New Zealand First is going to return by passing the 5% threshold or by gaining an electorate seat and I assume that would be Winston?

RON Oh look I see all of those being in the hands of the voters honestly. It's up to us to perform credibly and to campaign well and to sell our message about our achievements and that’s probably something that we're gonna have to work harder on, get that message out there but I believe New Zealand First will as it has done, play a significant role in the formation of the next government. We will be the third largest party in the House, we have been since 1996 and the feeling on the street is somewhat different to what I see in the polls. I think polls wise we're pretty much where we tend to be at this time of the electoral cycle and the next 12 months will tell.

RAWDON Great, Mr Mark thank you very much.

ENDS

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