UQ Wire: 911 Debate Opened Wide On Donahue

MOORE: That’s right. This was, behind me here, the largest, longest assembly line in the world at one time. It’s called the Buick City facility. Every Buick in the world back in the ’50s and ’60s was made here. And they shut it down a couple of years ago. And right now they’re in the process of tearing it down.

And what you’re looking at on the tape here-and this is the former world headquarters of Buick here in Flint. This came down just a couple of hours ago. There are signs all over the place here that say “demolition is progress.” But nothing is planned to replace this facility. Twenty thousand people work here, Phil.

DONAHUE: And it’s closed down and it’s been razed, why, Michael?

Give us your read here. What happened to those jobs?

MOORE: Those jobs went elsewhere to places where General Motors and companies like them can exploit people with lower wages, no unions, no benefits. It wasn’t because the car sales went south. The car sales have been at an all-time high. Last October, the month after 9/11, was the largest month for car sales in the history of the automobile.

And I believe last month was right up in the top five, in the history of the automobile for car sales. The cars are selling. The corporations here, especially General Motors, are making profits in the billions.

They’re not tearing down this plant because people stopped buying Buicks. They’re tearing it down because they found a much cheaper way to make the car, without thinking about who’s going to be left to buy the cars because they no longer have jobs in places like Flint.

DONAHUE: I was not invited to Waco to the president’s economic forum.

Of course, you know, the mail these days.

MOORE: You don’t check your e-mail enough, Phil. That’s the problem.

You have to be on-line more.

DONAHUE: Neither were you, Michael. Now, so, what do you think now? We’ve got Charles Schwab. We’ve got lots of heavyweights down there with my president in Waco-good idea?

MOORE: I’ve been kind of conducting my own little economic forum here in Flint today. And actually, it was very similar to Bush’s in one respect. No Democrats were invited. No members of Congress.

But I actually went up to the man from the Oval Office. I didn’t invite any Republicans either. I was just walking around Flint here today talking to some people. And, boy, I’ll tell you, what we saw today down in Waco was not reality. This was just some kind of weird, bizarre show.

If they had TV cameras back in the days of the Roman empire, these would be the people, like, having a conference on why Rome was burning. Except these are the people that set the fire. And they’re all down there at Waco discussing it.

Just-you know, I’m laughing only because I’m angry about it, actually. I think it’s just-the ruse and the audacity of this, at such a time when people are struggling thoroughly to survive in this country, that they’re down there. The fox is guarding the henhouse. And they’re down there telling us, oh, the hens are fine. Don’t worry about the eggs. Lots of productivity going on, you know.

I mean, look, the good thing, Phil, is that you and I live in a country where people are actually pretty smart. And you can’t fool them.

And what went on down there today, nobody’s fooled by it. Nobody is fooled

by it.

DONAHUE: You think that the stock market literally played-rolled the dice with working people’s money, especially throughout the ’90s. And you make the point that 401Ks really took the biggest hit here.

MOORE: Well, you did a great job when you had the people down there in Houston showing what happened there, with people that were suckered into this. I mean, I’ve never bought a share of stock. And most of my friends have bought stock and people I know.

And I always thought that I was kind of crazy not getting into this. But I couldn’t understand if you spend money on something, aren’t you supposed to get something back for it? I mean, it always looked like Las Vegas to me.

And what I feel bad about are people like here in the Flint, Michigans of this country. They invested their money in the rich man’s game. It’s not their game. You know, it’s rigged. It’s rigged to support the rich guy.

The thing that’s going on with Martha Stewart, that goes on all the time. Because these people, they lunch together, they golf together. They hang out together. They share information. They know what’s going on. They know where to put their money.

The average person though is suckered into this thinking, yes, I’m going to be part of the system, too. I’m going to be part of the American dream.

And I don’t know how many shows, Phil, I’ve been on in the last decade where I’ve had to listen to commentators tell me, Mike, you don’t get it. You know, more than half the country owns stock. Corporate America isn’t just a couple of rich guys. It’s owned by everybody.

Yeah, well, who’s getting screwed right now? You know? The everybody, who they mean. The average working person. Not the rich guy. They’re not suffering a recession. They’re doing just fine.

They’ve got billions and billions of dollars in the bank. And they’re not going to share, you know, a slice of that pie anytime soon.

DONAHUE: Yes. I don’t want to run out of time. We want to bring you back for the second segment because there’s lots of things.

Michael, if you hadn’t supported Ralph Nader, we might have had a president in there a little closer to the people and without these Republican values that seem to suggest that all business is good, more business is better, bigger business is best.

MOORE: That was you, Phil. It was not me.

DONAHUE: My fault.

MOORE: It’s all your fault.

DONAHUE: Now, what do you say? Come on, I want you to tell me what you say when they sneak up from behind and hit you with that?

MOORE: All I hear from everybody is, man, you guys were right. You know? I mean, you called it a long time ago. You said we were getting screwed, we were going to get screwed more. And it’s exactly what happened.

You know, what I tell people is first of all-and I guess it just sounds like I’m beating a dead horse now, but let me just beat it one more time. Al Gore won the election. He got the most votes. He won Florida as far as most of these investigations are concerned. This election was a ripoff, most people know it.

Bush is not going to have a second term. And he’s going to get his comeuppance this November. They’re going to lose the House. I firmly believe that.

And it’s not because the country shifted towards the Democrats. I just think that they’ve had it. And it’s going to be the only way they’re going to be able to respond, to say they don’t like what’s going on.

Can I just point something out, Phil?

DONAHUE: Sure.

MOORE: Just an example of what happened today. Here’s a quote from Bush down at the economic conference there. He said, “The government accounting system is pretty kind of hard to explain. I’ve been there 18 months trying to figure it out.” And then everybody laughed.

You know, that’s the kind of clown we’ve got in the White House right now. And people see this. And they watch all of his Republican rich buddies there. All these people, like Schwab, you mentioned, who contributed $900,000 to his campaign and to the Republicans.

They’re all sitting there laughing at this, while they’re out here wondering, is my pension going to be there? How am I going to pay the doctors bills? Why do my kids have to work at McDonald’s so we have a three-income household to pay the bills? You know, and they’re sitting down there in Waco laughing at this?

I’m telling you, there’s going to be hell to pay come November. And the people who are going to lose these seats are the Republicans, as a result of Bush and their policies, and this charade down in Waco today.

DONAHUE: Brother Moore, who is an author, is also, as you know, a documentarian. I’m told he got a 10-minute standing ovation at Cannes- you know, where all the beautiful people hang out with that movie meeting they have every year? I mean, the guy got this special prize. A huge recognition. And the first time ever, it was awarded to a documentary.

We’ll talk about that documentary. It’s about Columbine, America, guns, our culture, and a bank that gives you a gun if you open an account! I wouldn’t lie to you. We’ll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, NADER CAMPAIGN RALLY, BOSTON, MA-OCTOBER 2000)

DONAHUE: He’s a voice of the working man. He’s Flint, Michigan’s own. He’s the son my mother wanted to have. His name is Michael Moore, right here!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DONAHUE: Well, there we are on the campaign trail with Ralph Nader. Lots of respect for you out there, Michael. No kidding. You got the big bump from those crowds at the Garden, FleetCenter. I tell you what, you’re a hit. And now Cannes-or do you say Cannes?

MOORE: I never figured that out. The French say it’s somewhere in between, so I just don’t ever say the word.

DONAHUE: Right. Did you wear a black tie for this?

MOORE: Yes. I came and I didn’t have one on, and they wouldn’t let me through. So I tried to buy one off a sound guy who was there from a TV crew. It was ugly, Phil.

DONAHUE: All right, here we go. The film that won you the award. Special prize, 55th annual Cannes festival France. All the gorgeous people there. Standing O he gets for this. This is titled “Bowling for Columbine.”

The shooters at Columbine high school bowled the morning of the massacre. And this is just a scene from America, the gun culture, guns are good, everybody should have a gun. Here you are going to the bank that gives a-here it is. Watch this. He goes into a bank, wants a gun.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, “BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE”)

MOORE: I’m here to open an account.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, what type of account would you like?

MOORE: I want the account where I can get the free gun.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You do a C.D. and we’ll give you a gun. We have a whole brochure here you can look at. Once we do the background check and everything, it’s yours to go.

MOORE: OK. All right. That’s the account I’d like to open.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have a vault which at all times we keep at least 500 firearms.

MOORE: Five-hundred of these you have in your vault.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In our vault.

MOORE: Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have to do a background check.

MOORE: At the bank here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At the bank. Which we are a licensed firearm dealer.

MOORE: Oh, you are. You’re a bank and a licensed firearm dealer.

What do I put for race? White or Caucasian?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caucasian.

MOORE: Caucasian. I knew you were going to make me spell that. Cau-ca-sian. Is that right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

MOORE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don’t think that’s the part they’re going to be worried about.

MOORE: “Have you been adjudicated, mentally defective, or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?” I’ve never been committed to a mental institution. What does that mean, have I ever been adjudicated, mentally defective?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It would be something involved with a crime.

MOORE: Oh, with a crime. Oh, OK. So if I’m just normally mentally defective, but not criminal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you go, Mike.

MOORE: OK, thank you very much. Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have one personally.

MOORE: That’s a nice tension.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is. And it’s a straight shooter. It’ a straight shooter, let me tell you.

MOORE: Wow. Sweet. Well, here’s my first question. Do you think it’s a little dangerous hanging out with guns in a bank?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DONAHUE: Where is that bank, Michael?

MOORE: That’s right here in Michigan, Phil.

DONAHUE: A Michigan bank, huh? Boy, they must be thrilled with you.

Incidentally, somebody blamed shock rocker Marilyn Manson for the Columbine shooting. You make this point and you go to interview him. Marilyn Manson is a him. See? I’m not so old. Show them this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARILYN MANSON, SHOCK ROCKER: The two biproducts of that whole tragedy were violence in entertainment and gun control, and how perfect that that was the two things that we were going to talk about with the upcoming election.

And also, then we forgot about Monica Lewinsky and we forgot about-the president was shooting bombs overseas, yet I’m a bad guy because I have sang some rock and roll songs. And who is a bigger influence, the president or Marilyn Manson? You know, I’d like to think me. But I’m going to go with the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DONAHUE: Just one more, Michael, from your documentary. Here you are talking to Marilyn Manson. Go get ‘em.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOORE: If you were to talk directly to the kids at Columbine or the people in that community, what would you say to them if they were here right now?

MANSON: I wouldn’t say a single word to them. I would listen to what they have to say. And that’s what no one did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DONAHUE: Michael, I want to talk about this and we will, when we come back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DONAHUE: We’re back with Michael Moore, who joins us from Flint, Michigan. If you joined us late, that pile of rubble behind him was once the longest auto assembly line in the world. I speak of the Buick assembly plant in Flint, Michigan. Tiger Woods just won the Buick Open in Michigan, and they don’t make Buicks there anymore.

MOORE: And the Buick open was right here in flint. They can play golf here under Buick, but you can’t get a job here for Buick.

DONAHUE: Michael, I want to talk more about some of the things you cover in your book. Airport safety. Talk about the Bic lighter.

MOORE: Actually, I’m adding a chapter to my book on my Web site. I’m covering a number of these things. And the first question I’m posing is, why is it that the Bic lighters and the matches are allowed on planes when there’s that whole long list of nutty things-from toenail clippers to kniting needles to dry ice or-you know, that you can’t bring on the plane. But you can bring on matches or a lighter. And you can’t smoke on the plane.

So I was saying this on the book tour down in Washington, D.C. And during the signing a congressional aide comes up to me and he says, well, the Bic lighters and the matches were on the original FAA list to ban. But the tobacco companies lobbied the Bush administration to remove them from the list.

So, the priorities of this administration were quite clear to me at that point, if they weren’t already.

DONAHUE: We mentioned-incidentally, what does the pilot-I heard you say this on CSPAN. What does the pilot of a commuter airline make, or start at? Say, like, American Eagle, the high wing guys?

MOORE: American Eagle, the starting pay is slightly under $17,000 a year. Starting pay for a pilot, first year. That’s a pilot. They range anywhere from $15,000 to $20,000 on all these commuter airlines.

The person flying you up there in the plane is actually sometimes making less than the kid at Taco Bell. You know, but that never gets discussed in terms of our safety. It’s a labor issue, you know. Don’t want to talk about that.

DONAHUE: You call our attention to these things as you stand before the rubble of your own hometown, once the epicenter of the automobile industry. And now, here we are trying to figure out what will happen next.

I’ve established that you’re on “The New York Times” bestseller list. You’ve been there for 23 weeks. And you weren’t even-we weren’t-you weren’t even reviewed, is that so?

MOORE: It has not been reviewed in the “Times” or in 95 percent of the papers in this country. Tonight is the very first time I’ve been on MSNBC in the six months that the book has been on the bestseller list.

DONAHUE: You haven’t been.

MOORE: I have not been, no. It’s been a virtual blackout, but it hasn’t mattered.

DONAHUE: Thank goodness. You came to the right man. I’m going to-believe me, I’m going to make some people shake at this place tomorrow. I thank you, Michael. Next, the money trail...

MOORE: I’m so glad you’re back on the air, Phil.

DONAHUE: ... of al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)