Interview With CNN Correspondent Satinder Bindra
R. Nicholas Burns, Under Secretary for Political Affairs
Roosevelt House
New Delhi, India
December 8, 2006
CNN: Ambassador what does this deal mean in the larger context of the relationship?
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: I think the civil nuclear deal between India and United States has become, if you will, the
symbol of this new strategic partnership between the two countries. It’s become, I think for the Indian population and
also for many people on Capitol Hill, the big breakthrough that we have been waiting for. If you think about it, for
decades of this relationship, this was the ultimate unfulfilled relationship from1947 until recent years, and I think
both of us have acknowledged in the last decade or so that our national interests are converging as to what kind of
world we want to build. And this civil nuclear deal was so surprising for people because it overturns 35 years of
orthodox thought about how one should deal with India and it gives us tremendous possibilities and energy and the
environment of the future.
CNN: You described it as a “liberating” experience for India?
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Yes. You know India, here is the country that’s going to be, in 10 years or so time, the largest
country in the world by population. And yet for 35 years was forcibly kept on the outside of the major international
efforts that govern civil nuclear production and proliferation. So India was the country whose nose was pressed against
the glass and the great powers of the world wouldn’t let it in to this big operation. It took a lot of courage for
President Bush, and I think a lot of foresight for President Bush, to decide that it was time to change that policy; it
was time to change conventional thinking, both in the United States of America but also around the world, about the
proper way to deal with India. So it liberates India from its isolation of the last three decades and that’s a profound
strategic shift for India.
CNN: Literally for India but there would be concerns in the neighborhood; how is Pakistan going to react, and there has
been talk in many circles that China would see this as directed against its rising power.
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: I think that this is going to be seen as an act that gives India its due. India is a global
power. India has been a responsible steward of nuclear technology and it has never been a country that has proliferated.
India deserves this. And has earned this distinction to be treated by the rest of the world as a responsible player.
This should not present a threat to any one in the region. We, you know very well, we have a very, very good
relationship with Pakistan. But it is different than our relationship with India. The two countries are different. The
economic and political basis of our relations with India differs from our relationship with Pakistan, so I think its
time in South Asia that we all not see relations between Delhi and Islamabad as zero sum game, and when President Bush
was here several months ago he visited Delhi and then he visited Islamabad and had quite different conversations because
our interests were different is in both places.
CNN: Still the critics will be out in force both from the United States and in India. In the United States they will be
saying, “why make this exception for India; it’s still not signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.& rdquo; So you are blowing holes in the non-proliferation, sort of, regime, so to speak. That will be their argument
still.
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: You know, we strongly believe that this agreement is going to strengthen the international
non-proliferation regime. Consider the incongruity of the following: you’ve had, for a number of years, North Korea and
Iran inside the treaty, inside the system, cheating, and India forcefully kept out of the treaty, obeying the treaty and
playing by the rules. So we thought it made sense to correct that. It made sense to bring this enormously gifted
country, India, into the non-proliferation regime to strengthen it. And it certainly makes sense for us to demand that
North Korea gave up its nuclear weapons and that Iran not become a nuclear weapons power, which are two great concerns
of ours. So I think we’ve corrected some of the mistakes and imbalances in that treaty.
CNN: You want India to work closely with you and, as you put it in your own words, to try to stop Iran from acquiring
weapons of mass destruction. Now, many in India would view this as directly impacting on the sovereignty of India. There
are going to be concerns here in India. How would you like to respond to those concerns?
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: I would say very directly that India is a very sovereign country. It’s a great country and a
great power. There is nothing in this legislation in the United States that is going to subvert India’s right to make
it’s own decisions about the future of its country. But here& rsquo;s what the legislation does, I think, speak to: the very promising fact that India and the United States, while
we have different relations with the Iranian government, have come together, with China and Russia and the European
powers and Japan and Brazil, to all say to the Iranians, “we don’t want you to develop nuclear weapons systems because,
frankly, we don’t trust you with nuclear weapons.” And, so, on that very important question, India and the United States
are together. I think that has been reassuring to the United States Congress, and I think it should reassure the Indian
population. This is not an attempt, this bill by the United States Congress, to subvert sovereignty. I think it unifies
the two countries.
CNN: Other concerns, and simply put, this concern in India that it will not be able to transfer used fuel back to the
United States or wouldn’t be able to reprocess it as well. What would you like to say, as far as that is concerned, and
also, there is some concern about the transfers of sensitive technologies relating to reprocessing and enrichment of
Uranium as well?
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: I think this agreement by the United States Congress, this bill, is going to revolutionize the
ability of India to now build a civil nuclear sector, to provide more power to the Indian population, especially the
poorer parts of the Indian population who live on farms and need electricity for their homes and businesses, because for
the very first time the most modern civil nuclear technology, as well as nuclear fuel, is going to be made available by
American companies and others to the Indian sector. Now there are some restrictions on our ability to work with India,
and every other country in the world, in terms of enrichment reprocessing technology. The United States does not sell to
any country in the world certain aspects of those technologies, so we are not treating India any differently then we
would treat France or Britain in that respect.
CNN: But will you make exceptions for India, as far as the reprocessing technologies are concerned?
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: We will treat all of our leading partners in the same way and, obviously, we are operating under
congressional restrictions and we are going to follow the letter of the law. But I would like to say that the United
States Government will meet every commitment that we have made to India, in the two agreements that we have signed over
the last 18 months, and specifically on fuel assurances.
CNN: What about spent fuel? What happens to that?
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Well, you know, we are going to have to see the development of India’s nuclear industry, and
there will be some restrictions applied to that as there are to other countries.
CNN: Let’s be specific, Mr. Ambassador. Can that spent fuel be sent back to the U.S. or does it have to be kept here,
let’s be specific on that if we can?
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Well, there are certain restrictions on enrichment and reprocessing of spent fuel that apply, not
just to India but to other countries around the world, and we will have to look at any future cooperation with that in
mind. There are American laws that govern this part of our civil nuclear cooperation with all countries in the world, so
I think it is important to acknowledge that this bill is India specific and that it gives India, for the very first
time, opportunities and rights that it did not have before. But India will be treated in an equal basis, in the same way
we would treat any nuclear power.
CNN: What does it do for the United States because still, in the United States, many people are concerned about India;
they see it as outsourcing central, stealing U.S. jobs. What was this deal do to advance the United States’ own
commercial interests?
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: I think it is increasingly recognized in the United States that India can become one of our most
important strategic partners. So, for instance, in terms of trade and investment, there is a lot of business that
American companies can do it here. Look how well Boeing has done selling 68 civil airliners to the Indian fleet; an $11
billion deal. Look how well Wall Mart is doing with this new deal, just announced in the last few weeks, and so there
are tremendous opportunities. In any competitive trade relationship obviously there are advantages for Americans and
advantages for Indian companies, and you hope that it works out well for both. I think in this case it does; we’ve
doubled our trade with India in just the last 4 years.
CNN: Bottom line, it’s still going to be a hard sell for the Indian Prime Minister. This deal, as it stands even now, is
still going to get the critics out and still the Prime Minister is going to find it hard to sell?
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Oh, I think this deal is indisputably in the best interest of India, as well the United States,
and I hope that it is going to be recognized by the Indian Parliament and the public here that there is tremendous
advantage for India. It’s being relieved of its three decades of isolation. It could not participate fully in the major
international activities concerning civil nuclear power, which is so critical to our future. Especially given the
problems with climate changes; it is clean energy. And so, I think, as the Indians look at this bill in its totality
they are going to see a fair bill passed by the United States Congress. What the Congress has done is to reflect, very
much, the commitments that we made in our negotiations. This is a tremendous step forward for India and the United
States. It is a very, very great day for our relationship.
CNN: Mr. Ambassador, what happens next now?
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: What happens next is that we implement this whole agreement, and I think that unfolds over the
next year. What happens next is that now that the United States Congress has said, “we agree, the United States should
work with India in civil nuclear production”, we need to convince the rest of the world, and so India and the United
States will take our agreement to the nuclear suppliers group; the 40 odd countries that make up the nuclear powers in
the world, and we will try to convince every single one of them that they should drop all the international barriers to
further investment in India by international firms.
CNN: If India should test a nuclear device 6 months from now, what happens then?
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: You know, I don’t want to deal with hypothetical questions. India has been a responsible player
in the nuclear field, and India and the United States have an agreement that we are going to look forward. A nuclear
test would obviously be an abrupt departure from the agreement that we have, so we don’t expect that will happen. But, I
think we ought to be positive and look ahead and understand the significance of what has happened today.
CNN: You know, India and the United States have had some times of turbulent relationship; in the Cold War it was up and
down, both countries could not trust each other, and now?
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: And now we have a significant strategic partnership world-wide. This civil nuclear deal between
India and the United States is historic. It is a dramatic and positive turning point in the relationship. In that sense
this is big day for all of us who have known that since 1947 India and the United States have had a roller coaster ride
in our relations; and series of ups and downs. This was the ultimate unfulfilled relationship between the aligned power,
the United States, and the great non-aligned power, India. And I see our national interests converging. And we certainly
share a lot of values and we look upon each other with a great deal of trust that together, whether its on nuclear
power, whether it is on HIV/AIDS prevention, whether its trying to promote democracy in the world and trying to fight
terrorism. We have these common interests that are bringing our countries together, in a way, for the very first time
since India’s birth in the late 1940’s, and that is a significant accomplishment for both countries.
CNN: Ambassador, you have been working, I know, for 18 months, and I have to say “congratulations.” We all feel that
this is a pretty big day.
CNN: Ambassador, can I just jump in where Mr. Bindra left off? Ambassador, specifically on the access to reprocessing
technologies and enrichment, heavy water production, etc, you did make the point that none of these were available to
other countries. My question is in the bill. You do talk about certain conditions under which these might be made
available. Could you elaborate on those conditions?
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Yes, if India were to join this revolutionary new group called GNEP, where we are experimenting
with the most modern designs of nuclear facilities, then it might be possible for us to engage in commerce on this. So
that is an incentive, frankly, for both of us. We would like India to be a part of this very small group that includes
Russia, China, France, Japan, and Britain. We would like India to be among the cutting edge of research, and if it does
join this group, then it is possible we might be able to go further in that area.
CNN: Great. In which case, if we do put a breeder reactor under safeguards, say 6 years from now, it’s possible that we
could get access to these technologies?
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: And we hope that India will elect to put one of its breeder reactors under safeguards. When we
negotiated this deal, India was reluctant to do that, but we anticipated that the great majority of new reactors to be
build in India will be breeders, and it is in this breeder technology that you can look for this revolutionary new
breakthrough in how we process fuel and how we go forward with nuclear power. And India, given its math, science, and
engineering talent, its technological prowess as a country, ought to want to be in that group. And, if it does then, of
course, some of these technology transfers might be possible.
CNN: Final question, Sir. Spent fuel reprocessing, you did say that no other country really does that, but, Japan and
Switzerland do have consent rights on reprocessing.
UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: The great majority of countries do not. It requires a very intricately negotiated and lengthy
agreement with the United States, and India does not have one yet. And, so, it is theoretically possible for the future,
but currently India will be treated as all other countries are treated. So, we do not make a distinction, there is no
discriminate here. Now, I actually think that one of the hallmarks of this bill by the Congress is that it doesn’t
discriminate against India; it gives India a fair chance to be treated on an equal basis.
CNN: Thank you.
Released on December 18, 2006
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