Rice Interview With Giuliana Morrone, TV Globo
Secretary Condoleezza Rice
Brasilia, Brazil
April 27, 2005
(9:00 a.m. Local)
QUESTION: So how was your meeting yesterday with President Lula? What did you talk about?
SECRETARY RICE: I had a wonderful meeting with President Lula yesterday. First of all, he is someone that I admire very
much, that the President admires for all that he's done for Brazil, for his own personal story, which is an
inspirational one in a democracy. It was a warm meeting.
We had an opportunity to talk about the aspirations of people of Brazil and people in the region, as well as people in
the world, for democracy and for prosperity. The President talked a lot about his trip to Africa and how he's been
impressed with how much work there is to do there. And we talked about what we might be able to do together in areas
like that. We talked about the challenges in this region, in places like Ecuador and Bolivia and in places like
Venezuela. But we talked mostly about the strategic relationship that the United States and Brazil should develop as two
large, multiethnic democracies with, I think, much that we could do for the world with our partnership.
QUESTION: And what could be done and which strategy and plan?
SECRETARY RICE: Well, the strategy is to proceed from our common values. And our common values, of course, begin with
our belief in democracy. And Brazil, because it had such a struggle for democracy and in recent decades a struggle for
democracy, is a very important symbol and example for people who are still struggling. We also talked about the fact
that we are multiethnic democracies and, in much of the world, being different is a reason to kill someone. In Brazil
and in the United States, being different is a part of the rich cultural diversity and tapestry of our societies. And so
we talked about that. And we talked about the need to make sure that democracy is actually working for the people, that
education and hunger and health care are all being provided for the people, even for the people who are the poorest.
QUESTION: Talk about democracy. Yesterday, (inaudible) Hugo Chavez. Did you talk about that? What did you talk about
Venezuela?
SECRETARY RICE: We have talked about Venezuela. We've talked about the challenges that the Venezuelan people have. The
United States views on this are very clear. We have had over the years traditionally very good relations with Venezuela?
QUESTION: But now?
SECRETARY RICE: We have wonderful relations with the Venezuelan people. We have economic relations with Venezuela. Our
concerns are not about the single person here, Mr. Chavez. Our concerns are about the behavior here, concerns about the
interference in the affairs of neighbors, concerns about what is happening to democratic institutions in Venezuela.
After all, we have a democratic charter, the Inter-American Democratic Charter, that obligates democratically elected
leaders to rule democratically.
But I want to be very clear. We talked about a range of issues and challenges, because Venezuela is an important one,
but it is by no means the center of the relationship between the United States and Brazil. That is a relationship that
has a lot of work to do in the hemisphere and in the world.
QUESTION: But could you number some of the (inaudible) Venezuela and Brazil's relationship to Hugo Chavez?
SECRETARY RICE: I assume that Brazil should have relations with Venezuela. Venezuela is a country with which we have
diplomatic relations. This is not an issue of not talking to the Venezuelans. That's very, very good that Brazil talks
with the Venezuelan government.
The important message is that everyone should rule and govern democratically and that there should be no interference
in the affairs of neighbors. But we are going to have democracy triumph and flourish in this hemisphere by attention to
democratic processes, to the benefits of free trade. We talked a good deal yesterday about the WTO, about the FTAA,
about the need to have greater economic trade and relationships between the members of this hemisphere. We are going to
try and have democracy triumph when countries are willing to help fragile democracies, as we've been trying to do and
the OAS has been trying to do and Brazil has been trying to do with the recent difficulties in Ecuador.
QUESTION: Which democracies are at risk?
SECRETARY RICE: I think everyone knows that there have been very difficult times in Bolivia. There have been difficult
times in Ecuador. And these are new democracies -- fragile democracies and when this happens, the region and
particularly important countries in the region, like Brazil, mobilize to try and help them get through these difficult
times.
QUESTION: Given for this exile to a President that chose corruption, President Lucio Gutierrez, was a good thing or
not?
SECRETARY RICE: Well, it was a decision by the Brazilian government, but we all were focused on -- and we appreciate
very much what Brazil has done -- we're all focused on the need to help the Ecuadorian people move on, to move forward
in a constitutional way, to move forward in a democratic way. And all of the steps that are being taken are intending to
do that.
QUESTION: What did you talk about FTAA?
SECRETARY RICE: Yes, we had very good discussions on the FTAA. It has been an important symbol, as well as an important
fact, of the relationship. It stands for the desire to see a freer trading, more integrated western hemisphere, in which
you would have the power of this hemisphere from Canada to Chile. And that is the reason that we've been focused on the
FTAA. It does not have to compete with other trade arrangements. We should also be focused on the WTO.
The United States, of course, has with Mexico and Canada a very effective trading system through NAFTA. And we
understand the desires of Brazil to help in the integration of South America. So these do not have to be competitive,
they can be complimentary.
QUESTION: Now, our favorite question. Do you support a bid for Brazil to become a permanent member to the U.N. Security
Council?
SECRETARY RICE: The U.N. Security Council has to be thought of in the context of broader U.N. reform. And the U.N.
needs reform. It needs reform of the secretariat. It needs reform of its organization. It needs reform of commissions
like the Human Rights Commission -- where Sudan ended up on the Human Rights Commission. So clearly it needs reform. And
in that context, the Security Council is going to have to be reformed. All international institutions are going to have
to recognize that a lot has changed since 1945. There are new actors. There are new important (inaudible) countries that
are rising and taking on a global role.
But what we want to do is to consider this in the context of broad reform. And we're in very close consultations with
other members of the Permanent Five but also with those who aspire to Security Council membership.
QUESTION: Is it time to support a bid from Brazil or not?
SECRETARY RICE: This will in many ways come to some kind of head in September when the U.N. General Assembly meets. I
think we will at that point have to have a serious discussion about where we stand on all aspects of U.N. Security
Council reform.
There's no doubt that Brazil is an emerging and important player regionally, increasingly globally. And international
institutions will have to begin to take that into account.
QUESTION: Okay. The number of illegal immigrants from Brazil in the U.S. has risen over the years. What is the U.S.
doing about it and what should Brazil do? Are you concerned about that?
SECRETARY RICE: Well, we have in the United States a problem with immigration, illegal immigration. Obviously, the
United States has to have laws that have to be enforced on immigration. But the President has said that it is also
extremely important that we have immigration reform in the United States.
We need an immigration system that is humane, an immigration system that respects our laws, therefore the President has
never favored amnesty. The President has also said that perhaps through something like a temporary worker program where
people can work and where we recognize the fact that the American economy does in fact use the labors of people who come
to the country seeking work, they're seeking a better life -- these are jobs Americans will not do -- and so matching a
willing worker with a willing employer is a part of this new immigration reform that the President would like to see.
And that would be economically viable for both the worker and the employer, and it would be more humane than having
people live in the shadows as they do now.
QUESTION: Okay, but are you concerned specifically with Brazilian illegal immigration or not?
SECRETARY RICE: Well, it's the system as a whole. I think we have no concerns about a specific group of people. But we
do worry about the ability of the United States to maintain control of its borders, control of immigration. And,
frankly, our system is very, very desperately in need of reform.
QUESTION: Okay. Thank you very much.
SECRETARY RICE: Thank you very much.
2005/T6-6
Released on April 27, 2005
ENDS