VZCZCXYZ0023
RR RUEHWEB
DE RUEHEG #3348/01 3320930
ZNY SSSSS ZZH
R 280930Z NOV 07
FM AMEMBASSY CAIRO
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC 7564
INFO RUEHXK/ARAB ISRAELI COLLECTIVE
RUCNFB/FBI WASHINGTON DC
S E C R E T CAIRO 003348
SIPDIS
SIPDIS
E.O. 12958: DECL: 11/12/2027
TAGS: PREL PTER KJUS ECPS IZ EG
SUBJECT: FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR MEETS WITH HEAD OF STATE
SECURITY
REF: A. CAIRO 1638
B. CAIRO 3247
Classified By: Ambassador Francis J. Ricciardone, for reasons 1.4 (b) and (d).
1. (C) Summary: In a wide-ranging November 4 meeting, State Security Investigative Service (SSIS) head Hassan Abdul
Rahman and visiting FBI Deputy Director John Pistole discussed increased fingerprint sharing, the GOE's views on the
Muslim Brotherhood, Egyptian concerns about terrorist returnees from Iraq, and the recent decision by the leadership of
the Egyptian Islamic Jihad to embrace a new non-violent ideology. A discussion of the phenomenon of "virtual
radicalization" was prompted by the Ambassador's comments about the concurrent visit to Egypt of Ambassador David Gross,
U.S. Coordinator for International Communications and Information Policy, and his focus on freedom of expression
vis-a-vis the internet, and how the U.S. is striking a balance between freedom of expression and the protection of
citizens from terrorists and criminals. End summary.
2. (C) Repeatedly during the meeting, Abdul Rahman emphasized the "excellent and strong" cooperation between SSIS and
the FBI, through Embassy Cairo's Legatt office, highlighting the "great benefit" that SSIS derives from training
opportunities at the FBI Academy in Quantico, VA. When Deputy Director Pistole raised the possibility of increasing
information sharing of fingerprints - with the GOE to be granted access to the USG's fingerprint databases, in return
for the GOE sharing fingerprints of extremists that it has on file - Abdel Rahman was largely unresponsive. Later in the
meeting, he offered that, "if you have the fingerprints or DNA samples of anyone who conducted an attack against any
American anywhere, please pass it to us, and we can check our databases for information on the individuals."
3. (C) Abdul Rahman spoke at length about the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood (MB), terming the group "terrorists, not
political oppositionists." During a lengthy heartfelt monologue, Abdul Rahman asserted that, "you just do not understand
the MB like we do. It is an extremist group, from which all Islamic extremists have sprung, and even now, despite having
changed tactics and not engaging in actual violent operations, it is still providing financial support to Hamas." Abdul
Rahman opined that the MB's "weight in the Egyptian street" is actually negligible, noting that, "the strength of the MB
is much less than implied by their success in the 2005 parliamentary elections." He did not provide any further
information to bolster this assertion.
4. (S) When queried by Pistole regarding the large percentage of Egyptians among the senior ranks of Al Qaida (AQ),
Abdul Rahman agreed that an inordinate amount of AQ cadres are Egyptian, noting that, "they are keen to undertake
operations to destabilize the Egyptian government." He said that the GOE monitors the activities of Egyptian extremists
in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Gaza, and Libya, and that relevant information on these extremists is regularly
passed to the U.S. through FBI and intelligence channels. Abdul Rahman flagged his concern about dealing with the
"aftermath of Iraq," noting, "Iraq is an enormous terrorist training camp. We are very concerned about what will happen
when those terrorists who are Egyptian return from Iraq .... We had a major problem in the past with mujahideen
returnees from Afghanistan, and are concerned about a similar phenomenon post-Iraq."
5. (C) Abdel Rahman noted that the recent decision by the leadership of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad to embrace a
non-violent ideology (see ref A and septel), is a "great blow to AQ .... which will have them in a state of panic." He
noted also the 2001 "conceptual revisions" of another infamous Egyptian extremist organization, the Islamic Group (IG,
or "Gamaat Islamiyya" in Arabic), in which the IG renounced its violent modus operandi. Abdul Rahman said that the
Egyptian government has launched an IG website featuring the group's "corrected" ideology, and featuring "famed
extremists" demonstrating that they now condemn violence, "which is a blow to AQ, because these condemnations are coming
from people with credibility when it comes to violence." He asserted that, "we have recently witnessed an increased
number of visitors to the website," and averred that one-quarter of the site's visitors are based in the U.S.
6. (C) The Ambassador raised the concurrent visit to Egypt of Ambassador David Gross, U.S. Coordinator for International
Communications and Information Policy, noting that he was in Egypt to discuss not only technical issues related to
information technology, but also freedom of expression vis-a-vis the internet, and how the U.S. is striking a balance
between freedom of expression and the protection of citizens from terrorists and criminals (see ref B for further
details on Ambassador Gross' visit). Abdul Rahman welcomed the Ambassador's offer to provide an Arabic-language version
of Gross's public statements while in Egypt. He noted that "the internet is a very dangerous apparatus, and we need to
understand how to address it in an effective way." Commenting that "many of the members of the two extremist cells we
arrested recently were mainly dealing with each other on the internet," Abdul Rahman said, "we are concerned by
extremist websites, but we would never infringe on freedom of expression." Referencing the challenges posed by the
internet, he said, "a young Egyptian can become radicalized without even leaving his home - he just surfs various jihadi
websites." He therefore engages in no actual activities in the proverbial street until he actually undertakes a
terrorist operation, and "this makes it very difficult for any security agency to monitor." Pistole agreed that the
phenomenon of "virtual radicalization" is challenging, and noted that in the U.S., the FBI prefers to monitor the
continuing online conversations of extremists, so that the full scope of their activities can be uncovered, rather than
disrupting the communications immediately. RICCIARDONE